In Response To "Problems Faced In List@l"

I've tried to dodge getting into arguments on Listal because I've been in quite a few pointless ones that left me unsatisfied and unfulfilled. Generally not very rewarding experiences. But I can stay silent no longer as this wonderful site slides into pornography and the inane ramblings of frustrated users who will argue dumb points to the death even though they have no concept of spelling, syntax, grammar and punctuation.

So I wonder, why would someone make a LIST about complaints they have about this site when they could just make a forum post? Oh that's right, because they want ATTENTION! You all really think Meganfan cares about your suggestions and ideas? She only did it because she got banned from posting images (*cough cough*spamming*cough*) and wanted to incite some kind of weird riot. To quote Ruisperkle:

"It's nice of you meganfan that you made this list, because we don't have forums on this site with dedicated threads for suggestions and issues about the site... Oh wait we do have!

Ergo: Suggestion: Delete this, get a grip and move on."

Why would you tell the owner of this site, Tom, how to run it? Would you tell Mark Zuckerberg how to run Facebook? Would you tell Bill Gates how to run Microsoft? So why would you think you can boss around the owner and creator of this site, and insult him and the moderators and compare them to Nazis and Hitler? There will always be disagreements over what image is appropriate or not, what's porn and what's not porn, and the moderators do their best to keep Listal clean even though there are some mistakes more than once in a while. To quote Pumpkinate,

"Believe it or not, we don't enjoy sifting through pictures of women sticking their foam-rubber-filled (Hey, it works for the Muppets! Plus it's cheaper than using actual fat) rear-ends towards the camera.

That stuff is just revolting; forget whether or not you think it's "art", it's *downright disrespectful to women in general* and embarrassing to the numerous users who go on here for anything else.

So of course most of us mods (including myself) haven't the constitution, and opt for dealing with duplicate images and invalid ones. Ideally, these would be the only types of pics we'd need to get to."

So you see, instead of trying to stir up trouble, cause fights, and INSULT and GANG UP on the owner of this site and TELL him what to do, why not just make useful suggestions on the forum instead of riling up people's hatred and anger? What a horrible thing to do, I mean wtf is wrong with some people. Like many users have said, it's okay to upload tasteful pics of nudity because after all, it's just human anatomy. But it's not okay to pollute and trash this site with porn pictures of women's tits and asses. I'm pretty sure that's not what the majority of users are even here for.

And lastly, if you wanna make a complaint about problems in Listal, a big problem is people who steal lists off other sites and other people's hard work, but don't even give any credits or source and try to pass it off as their own.

LIST:
www.listal.com/list/16-embarrassing-celebrity-photo-shoots
RIPPED OFF FROM:
www.messynessychic.com/2012/06/28/16-embarrassing-celebrity-photo-shoots-that-will-haunt-them-forever/

LIST:
www.listal.com/list/disney-princesses-in-lingerie
RIPPED OFF FROM:
www.bitrebels.com/design/disney-princesses-lingerie-models/

LIST:
www.listal.com/list/celebrity-embrrsing-photos
RIPPED OFF FROM:
www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/embarrassing-celebrity-photos-gallery-1.1085643

LIST:
www.listal.com/list/would-like-if-you-were
RIPPED OFF FROM:
www.pleated-jeans.com/2011/11/29/if-you-were-a-cartoon-10-pics/

And it goes on and on, but...

Are you really gonna believe THIS kind of person who plagiarizes shamelessly when they accuse another person of being unfair? I know I'm gonna get a lotta shit for this, but someone had to say it. And also you people bitching about Listal and saying it sucks and the moderators and admin are "BAD" and "EVIL..." If you don't like this site, why the fuck are you on it? No one's putting a gun to your head. If you don't like this website, fine, but don't ruin it for other people.

Very well said: If you don't like this site, then leave.

Thank you for this post.

hear, hear

:)

Thanks to Severin Severin for putting in the effort to write such a thoughtful, level-headed, and comprehensive appeal to the site users who just don't get it.

Nice research on these blatantly plagiarized lists! I didn't realize it was such a problem.

I agree 100%. If you do not like it... bye. And not constant fighting for votes, for the highest ranking, plagiarism and copying ideas from other users. Once I drew her attention to it, but my comments have been deleted and I blocked, like a few other my friends, so... I gave it up.

Very gud point you made there @ Severin Severin...I don't want to just comment on that list cause what i think that мя.ЂeLweNdeR made this list in association with meganfan just to get the attention. I've seen all the pictures he has posted & its all are same & has posted thousands of it

Check these for example : www.listal.com/charmy/pictures

www.listal.com/tamanna-bhatia/pictures//3


My images are also been deleted & i've asked for the reason & moderators do tell u the reason if ask them properly.

& to мя.ЂeLweNdeR if u have so many problems with this site then the doors of hell are open day & night you can go whenever u wish too.

haha... @ Ultimateone - very funny. I laugh all the time :D Comes to Disney Princess. One day will come and kick her ass! Probability when she does list the Disney princesses without lingerie :D But seriously... every problem can be solved peacefully. I don't know whether the manifest, which she did is a good way...

@ Villiana,when she'll make that kind of list they will fall in their on trap of Nudity/Sexual issue of image deletion.

LMAO @ disgruntled users who I have blocked making 2nd accounts so they can send me attack messages.

I think the whole 'conversation' in the comments on that list goes too far. People throw the shit and is no longer pleasant and friendly.

Why would you tell the owner of this site, Tom, how to run it?

Nope!

...Would you tell Bill Gates how to run Microsoft?

Definitely! :D

@Orpheus - 'Insane' is an understatement. Is not here so many levels to describe what people do for a higher ranking. Starting from making your profile advertising space ("check it", "check that") to create fake accounts. This is not only sad. This is sick :D
On the margins... @The O.P. Your comments are very funny :)

The list was deleted before I could get in my 2 cents, but,...meganfan and others brought up one good point: the reasons for having pics deleted is too vague. Personally, I don't want to see my hard work (and points) go down the drain because I violated the posting rules, so when I get one deleted under "other," its hard to see what I can do to avoid making the mistake again and potentially face a ban of my own. On the other hand, yes (!), I HATE when I go through a celeb's portfolio, looking for pics for my lists and see the SAME 30 or 40 pics posted in the past few days as were 6 months ago, and before that, a year ago, etc,....how hard is it to take a few moments to look? And, yes, some really popular celebs have several thousand pics, so it makes it harder, but still, make SOME effort.

Usually when an image is deleted as other and you have no idea why, it's because it was a repost or a photoshopped/manipulated version of the pic and the mod who deleted it was 100% sure it was already posted and didn't have the time to go back through thousands of images just to find one little pic that was reposted.

I write repost or photoshop on the image when I delete it but only mods can view it, unfortunately.

So many images are reposted by the mass in galleries and its not always practical to go back and find the link for every individual image. Off course, we only do this if we are familiar with the gallery and are certain it is a repost.

I also don't recommend posting those justjared pics or other mq tagged pics because if you wait like a few more hours they will almost always be available in HQ somewhere. It is annoying to constantly have to go back and delete those because HQs are now available. As the rules say, we want the best quality version of the image possible to be posted on here.

I don't mean to be harsh, I just trying to prevent galleries from getting cluttered. And Listal is an archive or it can be so its ideal to post stuff in the highest possible quality available.

Interesting points indeed, I really laughed about Orpheus comments about some users making some fake accounts... I had the same reaction the first time I faced this. People can really do some weird things just to get some more points.

Personally, I have a lot of respect for Tom but the main issue, in my opinion, with this website is that the grey area is too big now between what is allowed and what is not. I mean, if we would be dealing with a couple of users, it would be allright, but, no, we are talking about 100's of users playing in this grey area because even though it is not allowed, they still think they can get away with this. The fact there is such a higher number of users feeling entitled to do so means that there is something wrong at the core.

Basically, Listal is like a big store with all your favorite stuff and some users come here and think 'Hé, what would happen if I steal a CD?'. Guess what? Nothing! So, they steal 10, then 100, and then 1000. Eventually, sometimes, they get caught but instead of being thrown out, they are just gently told that they shouldn't do it. But they just saw their next door neighbour going home with a brand new flat screen, so of course, they come back.

This website has somehow become the Las Vegas of the Internet. Officially, there are some rules but you can get away with almost anything and you probably don't want to know about all the nasty stuff going on in the dark corners.

Personally, I share the opinion of my good friend Xanadon't. I love this website but I'm not sure I want to share it with my friends and I certainly don't want my 6 years old daugher to see what's going on here.

@brazil - you're not being harsh. I'm probably in complete agreement with you.

I thought for sure I was gonna get crucified, but wow, it's nice to see so many peeps agree!

@ Villiana

Same for me too. I tried to tell that idiot to stop making those dumb Disney princess lists, but she freaked out and deleted my comments like a coward. She can't even handle any useful constructive criticism. Meganfan is not just insane, sad and sick- she's also extremely pathetic for making like 100 fake accounts to vote for her own lists. It's not just a coincidence that there's like 10 lists of hers on the front page all the time! Here's some of her fakes I found:

latika.listal.com/
sandra9.listal.com/
ladygaga1.listal.com/
myangel.listal.com/
nikita1.listal.com/
cinderella1.listal.com/
suman1.listal.com/
angelina1.listal.com/
kavita3.listal.com/
pawan1.listal.com/
shinaira.listal.com/

I can't believe someone would even do that, I mean what a psycho and how does she even keep track of all that shit? And she goes around spamming people that she doesn't even know's comment pages telling them to "check it." Meganfan should definitely be banned for plagiarizing and making spam accounts to vote for her own lists. People like her are turning this site into a cesspool.

@Ultimateone

Oh god, your comments literally made me laugh out loud! Haha yeah the Disney Princesses will come crying for help when she finally posts naked pics of them. Making tribute lists for random users just to get votes...That's fucked up! And that мя.ЂeLweNdeR motherfucker needs to just leave Listal if he has so many damn problems. They wanted to go on strike or something LOL like going on Listal is some kind of paying JOB that you can go on strike from!

@Johan

I can't agree more about what a pornsite and shallow Listal is becoming because of some people who think they're too good to follow the rules. I think people who post porn should be banned from Listal for good, it's the only way to stop this bullshit and turn this into a decent place again. It's a website for movies, books, games, music, fashion, art and history, not a fucking copy of Hustler or Playboy magazine for some sickos to fap to. The users who actually contribute great things should be rewarded, and the ones who work at destroying this site should be deleted for all eternity.

I also see lists ripped off from user of this site. A certain users takes content from someone else's lists and just puts it onto her own. The user adds some "additional" content but it is usually just irrelevant in regards to the point of the list.

original list: www.listal.com/list/i-am-queen
knock-off: www.listal.com/list/i-am-a-queen

original: www.listal.com/list/carolyn-murphy
knock-off: www.listal.com/list/carolyn-murphycovers

It's not like the user just comes up with the same idea on her own, the user is obviously just stealing content from another list.

I'm sure there are others, these are just the two I noticed.


-----------------

Johan: I don't think the problem is that we allow images or that the image rules are unclear. It's the same users who keep breaking the rules. I think they are very clear, users just don't want to follow them. I think we just need to ban them for longer or forever. And when they violate the rules they should be banned right away. Or better yet just ban there IPs permanently and maybe delete their accounts.

As Severin said, this site is for movies, books, games, music, fashion, art and history. And that includes archiving images for these interests. Listal has the potential to be a really great image archive.

I know, some of the interests like fashion may not have been the original intention of the site and I notice users often unintentionally or intentionally leave them out, but it is a harmless interest that in no way compromises the integrity of the site. Furthermore fashion is connected movies, books, games, music, art and history. And is a mainstream part of culture in general.

Something also needs to be done about multiple accounts

To be really honest, I hate when things come to a point in which people feel like they have to do something like that to try to put people some people against the other.

I know everyone around here enjoys getting votes, but it really gets ridiculous when people feel the need to create other accounts in order to fulfill their petty little crave for attention... I don't know, but I always enjoy the work I do, and it makes me flattered to know that other, and emphasis on the word other, people also enjoy it. It seems foolish of them to vote on their own stuff just because they need to feel "loved" or "important" or, well, whatever that is, really, kinda like sending Valentine's for yourself.

Yes, I admit I do send people messages to check the new things I've got going on one of my lists, but I've asked most of them whether or not they wanted to receive those messages, and if they said yes to it, then fine. If not, I won't really bother. But, seriously, getting the "check it" message every day or so gets so annoying!

I'm not old enough around here to comment on this, but I believe a website like this used to be about the fun, being able to create your things and have people share the same interest with you, but nowadays it just seems about the points. And some people are willing to go very low in order to get them.

Regarding what brazilfashion said about banning the people, if it works as a suggestion, I'm part of another website in which if you're not acting according to the rules and you get reported, they send you a message notifying you that if it continues, your account will be deleted. I think it could maybe work like that around here as well. If the person gets the message about having her/his account deleted and continues to behave the same way, delete the account. And, just to prevent the person from creating a new account just like a minute later, block the person's IP for three months. (don't know, just a suggestion, might be a whole lot of work)

To sum up, I just think it's really pathetic that people feel they have to start a fight that will lead nowhere just because they aren't happy with the way things are handled here. If it bothers them so much, I'm pretty sure no one would really miss them around here, for I think people like that have no real friends, so, good riddance. Feel free to look out for other websites in which you can get all the attention you need/require! (But, of course not, cause now their goal is probably to raise a little chaos, create pointless arguments and in the end make people believe they were actually the victims and that everyone should blame the moderators for what happened.

@Severin Severin loved your comment about the strike! Please, go on a strike, it would be lovely to go a few days without getting a "check it" comment! Hahaha...

Well, if a user is banned from posting images and other accounts are being used to upload images specifically for that users lists, that is proof enough for me.

@brazilfashion, I totally agree with you and I have pointed this out a couple of times. First ban a user for 3 months but the second time, just plain delete the whole account. It would be much more efficient but I haven't seen it done so far.

Concerning the fake accounts, it is quite sad but it doesn't bother me that much.

@Orpheus, to spot someone using fake accounts, it is pretty easy. If you see suddenly a whole bunch of really average (qualitywise) lists on the frontpage with 50, 60 or more votes than there is a good chance someone is using some fake accounts. I mean, it is very rare that one single list gather so many votes, so fast but if you talk about 20, 30 lists at the same time and fhey are not even that impressive, than you can do the math. The first time I discovered this, I was infuriated and gathered evidence. Eventually, I was told that something will be done but nothing really did happen. The bottom line is don't get too worked up about this, it isn't worth it.

Thanks a bunch for doing this write-up, Severin. It's surprising that this would even be a debate to some users.

One of the things I really like about Listal is that the rules are, in my opinion, very laid back. It's really not asking too too much that users don't treat it the way a select (albeit prolific) few have been doing.

That said, I apologize to everyone who gets caught in the crossfire of our rule enforcement. We mods are really doing our darnedest to keep this place from being abused; if this site weren't being cluttered up with millions of blatant porn pics, things like movie posters with tasteful nudity would most likely be allowed. We understand that it's frustrating when one is a law-abiding Listal user who goes to the Listal Feedback forum every Sunday. I don't think any one of us wants the site rules to become vastly stricter; just some common courtesy from a tiny minority who unashamedly disregard the rules and have the chutzpah to demand that said rules be changed to accommodate.

This thread has perfectly put into words everything I feel about this debate.

Sometimes, Pumpkinate, I absolutely adore you. I really love your last point.

My issue is that pretty much every time I've had an issue with wanting to know why something was deleted I'm able to go to one of my mod friends and ask for their input. Only when they don't know the issue do I take it to the forums. But even then, it's because I want to avoid breaking whatever rule I broke, not because I think that everything should go my way. All it is is temper tantrums by 3 year olds who had their favorite toy taken away. Let them go on strike. It would be refreshing.

I think Orpheus did a great job of summing up how everyone in this thread feels. Bottom line is we all love listal and we want it to be the quality site it was intended to be.

We have lots of people, including everyone in this thread, Tom, the other mods, and so many other legit users who have put time and effort into contributing great content to this site because they actually care about it! And we don't want to loose that.

See, this is what should have been done to start with instead of posting that ridiculous list. It's nice to see that everyone here are actually voicing honest opinions and responses, too and not slinging mud and resorting to childish insults. I sometimes wonder about the ages of those who do so; their profiles might say they are adults but their dialogue seems strangely reminiscent of young teenagers/children.

I, personally, love this site every bit as much as all of you do. I have only been here a few months but I love it. It was the fact that it's devoted to movies, music, books, etc... just as much as to making lists that drew me in. I love making lists and talking about the things I love, and in some instances do not love, and hearing what others think.

I even love the image lists. Some truly remarkable photos and paintings have been archived here. I treasure beauty, in all it's forms, and have made a few myself. There is a line though. I've accidentally crossed it a small number of times and the pics have been deleted for showing too much skin but I understand that's the reason. I try not to do so and don't harbor any ill will at all because they were deleted. There are many more out there that haven't been noticed yet though.

I saw a list today someone posted of pictures of naked men and wonder why it's still floating around. I'm sure it won't be for long though. It's blatant.

This is a wonderful site and the majority of people I have met and had contact with here are wonderful, too. Hopefully these issues will be resolved soon enough and I also hope that Listal is around for a very long time. I love it here.

The issues of fake accounts is pure juvenile behavior, I think. I mean, just how much time does someone have on their hands to do such a thing? Obviously, they are young and don't have to work (or aren't old enough to yet), it's pathetic; and the viral epidemic of Disney princesses makes me hope for mass inoculations to be available soon! ;) Hey, they do it with flu shots every winter!!

Nicely done, Raven! And truly intelligent and well-voiced comments from everyone, too!! :)

Many wise things have been told in this thread. I appreciate all posts. My view is that Listal should be a site for those who love movies, TV show, DVDs, books, music, games, and love expressing their interests through lists. That makes Listal special and unique. I am not a prude, but if you are looking for babes in G-string instead, there are so many other sites to go! Do you really need Listal for that? :)
That's the issue in my opinion, what kind of site Listal is going to be, and if I understand correctly what's going on... Tom is taking action to make Listal a better place, alongside with Moderators. So, I think that's good news for those who want a quality site, more focused on its primary topics.
So, I say, go on and crash on spammers and fake accounts, remove (or at least mark as "mature content") the gratuitously sleazy images, award points and promotion to home page to those who put real effort in their lists!
At the same time, I humbly suggest, do not annoy honest contributors with overzealous, nitpicking reporting, and do not delete legit movie posters unless there are really serious reasons, as this is a site for movie buffs too, I guess.
Just my 2 eurocents :)

P.s. I only mentioned "movies, TV shows, DVDs, books, music, games" as these are the official categories in Listal, but I agree with brazilfashion and Raven that fashion, art, history... are absolutely compatible with Listal's philosophy, too!

@Orpheus Those lists along with all the unregulated images become Spam, total crap that clogs up everything and brings everything else down. That's a virus if Iv'e ever heard one, and it should be got rid of.*

Couldn't agree more with you on that one. I consider myself and annoying member of the listal community because of, well, several reasons, but having to get a "check this", "check that" every day or so, just so numerous lists of the same user can be displayed on the front page is really annoying. I admit to liking some of those, but, it's like they're all the SAME thing, nothing new to them, not a comment, nothing that makes that list different from other many you can see with the same sort of content that go around there...

^ I've noticed that as well!!! *knocks on wood*

There are still a few questionable lists that have a suspiciously high number of votes. For example how does an image list with under 12 images get over 50 votes, let alone be on the front page? I don't understand. But, yes, overall it has been much better.

There is still plenty of boobs, mega boobs, big tits and ass cherishing lists.
They are not nudes, technically, but they are for sure "Images with extreme focus on body parts", which is not OK according to the Rules.
Even worse, by my book, they are not even related in any way to movies, TV shows, acting, writing, books, music, games, art, history, or fashion.
They are just a distatestful gallery of female body parts for the sake of showing them.
Problem is, they are so many of them, and more and more posted everyday, that I don't think reporting a few images would be of any use, really.
Besides, I see the risk that other kinds of images by contributors in good faith are put down in the crossfire of overzelous reporting.
So, how about a new weapon against the galleries of boobs and asses unrelated to any primary Listal topics? How about a list level ban for such lists?

Personally, I don't agree when I hear people saying it is only a few users who are uploading those pics or voting on them. I mean, it is pretty obvious that they are very numerous and this high number means that there is unfortunately something wrong at the core. Indeed, you could assume that a small number would deliberately go against the rules but such a high number? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure that most of those users sincerely believe that it is one of the purpose of this website, that they believe that they don't do anything wrong. In my opinion, the rules should be toughten up, risking losing a whole bunch of frustrated users but I don't see any other options.

^ Agreed. The idea that 'moderated content' should be allowed just seemed to open the door to everything from sassy swimsuits and ever porn star image that has ever been posted to the internet. What was meant to be consider 'not safe for work' and images that might be considered 'boarder line' seems to have crossed a line into pure derogatory crap. When did I start feeling like I'm writing 'serious features' for Penthouse magazine and slowly losing any feelings of personal selfrespect? :P

Edit: So, to answer the question on the other thread "Is Listal going to Porn"... the answer is 'yes'. I guess the question now is if there is any way to come back or just give up?

@jaytoast, exactly my point. I pointed this time many time before. The issue is this grey area which allows some users to cross the line time and time again. Basically, as soon as you allow some rather innocent lingerie pics of some known supermodel, then you will get some other users who will upload a very similar pic with a pornstar this time, the next user will then see this other pic and will then upload a similar pic, also with a pornostar, but this time in a very sexual position. Then, the next user will see this pic and upload a pic similar with no bra, etc.... You have this domino effect and to stop this, you have to be really tough and put some really strict rules. It is pretty obvious that the rule 'there is good taste nudity and bad taste nudity' or 'moderated content' is way too subjective and just doesn't work. At least that's my opinion.













You see where I'm getting at? And I could go on and on and at the end of this slippy road, you would find someting like an account called 'sex-gif' only made of very hardcore porn gifs (don't look for it... It's already gone...). Where would you draw the line? I wouldn't be able to because every single pic is justified by the one before.

I'm sorry but I really don't think Victoria's Secret images are the problem.

There is a very distinct difference between the top 3 and the bottom 3. And where the line would be drawn, I think, is between the top 3 and the bottom 3.The top 3 are intended for a female audience to sell them products from the brand. The bottom 3 are about selling ideas of sex/porn fantasies to men.

And it's not just the intent of the images. VS is very careful to not cross the line of what is generally considered tasteless or overly sexual to a female audience. They airbrush and position the models strategically to appeal to the audience (in other words, not be too provocative). And trust me they spend lots of money on marketing research to make sure their content isn't making women cringe. On the other hand, the bottom 3 images are intentionally trying to be provocative.

The line has to be drawn somewhere, not matter how strict or lax you make it and there will always be a gray area, no matter where the line is. But I think the top 3 images versus the bottom 3 demonstrate a pretty clear image of what should and shouldn't be allowed. Thus, leaving a very small gray area, imo.

Yes, I agree that the line can be vague but I think we can start with adult models, playboy centerfolds and porn stars. That would at least reduce some of the more illicit images and I personally start getting back to what I feel is a 'safe place' where Victoria Secret models for the most part aren't too racy. It is when they are put side by side with playboy centerfolds... then ya... everything starts looking like porn.

Sorry, to continue to harp on what is just my personal opinion.

I agree with Jaytoast for sure. If we put the focus back on what listal should be all about then there is no need for "adult models" on this site. If someone is only an internet porn star they shouldn't have a profile or there at least shouldn't be image uploads permitted to that profile. At this point it's not about the grey area anymore, we are well and truly across the line.

And, as a woman I agree with Brazilfashion. I've never looked at a victoria secret add and felt offended. Less than maybe but not like it's derogatory or disgusting. But alot of the content on this site nowadays portrays women as nothing more than sex objects and that's what I take offense to. I never had a problem with the lists celebrating beautiful, sexy and TALENTED women but these "big boobs" and "from behind" lists are nothing but smut. I wouldn't recommend this site to anyone right now and that is my biggest issue. I want to be proud of this community again.

I understand how when placed together images start to look similar and believe me, I feel a bit irked when I find a VS pic or some borderline image from Vogue that I uploaded getting sandwiched between a list with a bunch of porn images on it titled "Hot from Behind." That's not why I uploaded the image to this site.

And I completely understand that many guys are more likely to like certain images that a lot of people, including many women, would prefer not to ever see. I'm not against the existence of those images. I just don't think that porn, adult and glamor models belong on Listal. There are tons of other places on the web for that stuff.

@brazilfashion, I'm not saying you are not able to draw the line, I'm saying that all those users uploading those images don't really see the difference and frankly I don't see much difference either. For example, on the examples I gave, I can see one butt and it is Candice Swanepoel's and not Jenna Jameson's. Even if it is not the purpose of those pics, in the first 3 ones, I still see a girl almost naked. You have to put yourself in the shoes in those guys to understand where it all go wrong. Anyway, I agree with Jaytoast, it would be a good start to work on the playboy, glamour, pornstar accounts for a start. I wonder if it would be enough but it could be a good start.

And another thing, I don't want to be rude but I think it is hilarious when you say that VS spends a huge amount of money/time/energy to make sure their pics are not sexualized, well, I can't tell you, that is a waste. Seriously, if you ask the average straight guy, they will always tell you that they see an incredibly hot almost naked girl and they won't pay much attention to the lingerie, that's for sure.

I agree with brazilfashion on VS.
She explained the difference, and it's up to moderators to judge on the intent of pictures and on their taste, or lack of it.
If someone sees VS lingerie as porn, and if we applied the "domino effect" logic, then what would be next steps? Think of any skin as porn? Ban any swimsuits? Ban skirts too, because guys get aroused when they see a goodlooking woman wearing a skirt? Come on! A line has to be drawn, and can be drawn.
On the other hand, I think that if some VS pictures are used in a T&A kind of list, together with stronger images and under a suggestive list title, then I would like to ban or filter out the list as such, because of its main focus.

^ The only person that can really do anything about it is Tom. Even as I mod, I really can't do much in this case. I suggest you write to Tom, expressing your concerns. I have already done so myself.

@ johanlefourbe, you're kinda twisting my words. I'm not saying VS isn't trying to be sexy, I'm saying they are trying to appeal to women who are generally more prudish then men. Thus, they are being careful when being sexy to not cross the line and be what women would find tasteless and offensive. They are creating content that makes the brand appeal to women. That is why the fist 3 images don't make me cringe but the bottom 3 do.
And yes, a major US brand like VS is going to spend a lot of money in marketing research to make sure they are effectively communicating to their target market. I currently study marketing at a University in America, so believe me I know how it works.

@orpheus

I'm really pissed at the lack of regulation against that kind of thing.

Yes, I sort of reached my threshold with what is considered annoyance and just plain right abuse. If anyone knows me I'm the first person to defend any kind of public out cry against another member of Listal and I am willing to believe even the most wildest of explanations of any Listal users activity.

I assure you that if there was anyone to call foul and delete this thread in it's entirety would be me.

I truly believe that if "you" have a problem with another Listal member it is best to take it up with a moderator and not create a forum topic against any Listal member. For me this crosses a line between a "valid complaint" and "bulling". The only reason I haven't cry 'foul' is because there is simply too much evidence and the enormity of the the matter.

I have contacted Tom regarding this 'issue' and yes it is an issue. I involve Tom in any issue that I feel is detrimental to the Lisal site as a whole. So, yes... this is one of those times that I hit the big red panic button.

So, while yes it is sad that this should reach such an epidemic proportion. There are things being done to resolve the situation. The coding required to deal with these situations is... well pretty elaborate. I have been a system admin for a Unix based internet service provider providing hosting for other web based services and I can tell you this is well over my head.

So, yes... Tom is aware of the situation and is doing what he can. You will see an improvements in the Lisal site and the ability to handle these situations better in the future.

I am only sorry that this has dragged out for so long.

Yes, Tom has just informed us that he is dealing with the situation!

And I agree that normally the forum is not the place to single out and reprimand another member in such a way. But in this case, a user's spamming had just gotten way out of hand for so long, and I feel that it was necessary for users to be able to have a place where they could express their frustrations.