LoginPoints Whores
Deleted user
Deleted
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 21 1:32 - Has anyone ever considered just getting rid of the system? Are at least revising it till where only things like posting pictures or reviews get you points? So we don't continuously gets users like mikolajek all over the site (if you're wondering just look at his people ratings)? Apologies if this has been brought up before.
Deleted user
Deleted
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 21 1:45 - Oh yeah Iv'e been talking about this for ages now and I totally agree with you. It leads to mass spaming of other peoples accounts and the creation of fake accounts (for those sad enough to actually vote for themselves). Unfortunately it's not a very popular opinion, with a lot of people liking the points system. I can understand the fun of it, in a way, (then again quite frankly the attraction of a purely fictitious and meaningless hierarchical system doesn't exactly turn me either lol), but I just feel that you'll always get these crazies who come along and take it too far. Ultimately I feel as though it has an extremely detrimental impact on the quality of the site because it then becomes about the points rather than the actual content. But then again if you get rid of it altogether your punishing the people who like the points system but play by the rules fairly and don't ruin the site, so it's a difficult call to make.
* I disagree with what you said about points going solely to people who post pictures/reviews. Actually I feel as though there's way too many people who just use the site to post pictures. The site is after all meant to be about lists, thus Listal, not Photobucket.
* I disagree with what you said about points going solely to people who post pictures/reviews. Actually I feel as though there's way too many people who just use the site to post pictures. The site is after all meant to be about lists, thus Listal, not Photobucket.
Deleted user
Deleted
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 21 5:10 - True, didn't really put a lot of thought in when suggesting that. I'm not sure who the mod of this site is our whatever but they should probably be somewhat active in deleting these accounts, I mean they're not even putting effort into not looking like fake accounts. Most the stuff I deal with on this site isn't really popular and it's pretty noticeable/annoying to see someone suddenly go through and give tons of Japanese wrestlers/mixed martial artists all a 1.5.
Deleted user
Deleted
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 21 5:29 - That is ultra annoying, agreed. Especially when the user clearly doesn't have the knowledge of who or what they're rating. That's a perfect example of somebody disregarding the content in favour of making more points for themselves. We've had very similar situations before (anyone remember CarryOnBuff? lol). I agree something should be done about that. Why should rating things give points anyway? it's not like it's contributing anything to the site.
Deleted user
Deleted
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 21 7:57 - lol I'm pretty sure this is carryonbuff, the manner of speech in the about me seems pretty similar.
Deleted user
Deleted
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 21 9:37 - Who mikolajek? Nah I don't think so ha,ha. The interests seem really different/ I definitely don't think it's Carryonbuff back for vengeance (which should make Michael M happy ha, ha). Definitely doing something very similar in terms of randomly rating items/people in order to get points though. Some people just treat Listal as a game to climb to the top of leader board rather than it being about genuine interests and a way of sharing those interests with other users (or just creating good quality content in general) which is very sad I think. So long as the points system remains your always going to get new crazies who do similar things. I wouldn't get too hung up on it though, I mean the likelihood of anything being done about it are sadly very slim...
Moderator
jaytoast
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 22 19:46 - The point system has come under scrutiny a few times:
Ignore my ramblings. Ape makes the best point:
www.listal.com/topic/points-system-yay-nay
Fake accounts do get deleted when they are reported and verified. Quite simply, if the Admin and Moderators don't see it. Nothing gets done about it and yes it can take some time depending on the situation.
PLEASE DO NOT POST a username if you think someone is cheating.
PLEASE message Tom or another moderator directly
tom.listal.com/
Spam accounts don't get deleted. When a moderator finds them we just give that special person a lifetime ban from logging into the site. Spammers will just create new accounts if deleted so keeping them on the site but not functioning is a bit more useful.
Still, that leaves the "I rank everything for points" who if you look at the profile pages of those people you'll see that they have been removed from the point system. Yay zero points! Alas, that hasn't removed the ratings from the site. Still making "Sort by Listal Top Rated" sort of worthless IMO
Ignore my ramblings. Ape makes the best point:
www.listal.com/topic/points-system-yay-nay
Fake accounts do get deleted when they are reported and verified. Quite simply, if the Admin and Moderators don't see it. Nothing gets done about it and yes it can take some time depending on the situation.
PLEASE DO NOT POST a username if you think someone is cheating.
PLEASE message Tom or another moderator directly
tom.listal.com/
Spam accounts don't get deleted. When a moderator finds them we just give that special person a lifetime ban from logging into the site. Spammers will just create new accounts if deleted so keeping them on the site but not functioning is a bit more useful.
Still, that leaves the "I rank everything for points" who if you look at the profile pages of those people you'll see that they have been removed from the point system. Yay zero points! Alas, that hasn't removed the ratings from the site. Still making "Sort by Listal Top Rated" sort of worthless IMO
Deleted user
Deleted
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 23 6:24 - I suppose the issue is technically they aren't really breaking the rules or "Cheating" (though by definition that would give credence to Listal being a game/competition) the system the way it is. JourneybyTrain's point is that somebody is randomly rating items in order to gain points, including giving negative ratings to things I doubt very much said accused has much knowledge of. But as offensive as that may be ultimately as things stand anybody can do exactly the same thing and they won't be breaking the rules. In fact the "competition" of the points system may well encourage such indiscriminate acts.
I think the Spam accounts we're talking about are two different things. I'm talking about users who constantly post links to random other peoples Comment section in order to garner votes for their lists. In a few instances I wouldn't have a problem with this (Listal polls or lists that may have a particular interest to said user) but once again this is done in such indiscriminate and Spamming fashion and is based solely upon the competition of the points system, and I know for a fact I'm not the only one who is sick of this. But once again to the best of my knowledge technically that isn't against the rules either. And yeah i know we've been over this. I brought it up a few times with my old account (Orpheus Anathema) and it wasn't that popular back then either lol. I can see the pro's and cons of the system but this is going to come up over and over again and the question remains is the site about points or is it about content? Because more often than not the two contradict each other. And even if you do punish and dock the points of certain users, fact is your always going to get new users who come in and do exactly the same thing because after all the points system is a competition isn't it? So it gives them permission and a green light to do exactly the same thing.
There rant out, I know things won't change, but I said my piece lol.
I think the Spam accounts we're talking about are two different things. I'm talking about users who constantly post links to random other peoples Comment section in order to garner votes for their lists. In a few instances I wouldn't have a problem with this (Listal polls or lists that may have a particular interest to said user) but once again this is done in such indiscriminate and Spamming fashion and is based solely upon the competition of the points system, and I know for a fact I'm not the only one who is sick of this. But once again to the best of my knowledge technically that isn't against the rules either. And yeah i know we've been over this. I brought it up a few times with my old account (Orpheus Anathema) and it wasn't that popular back then either lol. I can see the pro's and cons of the system but this is going to come up over and over again and the question remains is the site about points or is it about content? Because more often than not the two contradict each other. And even if you do punish and dock the points of certain users, fact is your always going to get new users who come in and do exactly the same thing because after all the points system is a competition isn't it? So it gives them permission and a green light to do exactly the same thing.
There rant out, I know things won't change, but I said my piece lol.
Deleted user
Deleted
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 23 10:30 - I strongly agree with what Ape* said by the way, Hang on where was I during that discussion? I'm fairly certain I would have been around lol, maybe that was when I threw my toys out out my pram and quit the site for it's inability to change in any meaningful way. Question is why is the points system still around?
* I disagree with what he said about how it would damage the site in terms of losing users though, in the short term perhaps, but I really think that if the quality of the content improved it would surely generate more interest in the long term. The frustrating thing for the hardcore Listal users is we all know the promise the site has, and that it could be a lot bigger than it is. These childish points games only damage the overall content and I would suggest for the most part a severe turn off for potential new users who take an interest in the site.
Right I really am going to shut up now lol.
* I disagree with what he said about how it would damage the site in terms of losing users though, in the short term perhaps, but I really think that if the quality of the content improved it would surely generate more interest in the long term. The frustrating thing for the hardcore Listal users is we all know the promise the site has, and that it could be a lot bigger than it is. These childish points games only damage the overall content and I would suggest for the most part a severe turn off for potential new users who take an interest in the site.
Right I really am going to shut up now lol.
Deleted user
Deleted
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 27 18:13 - Hmmm... So the problem is what? That I vote too much or that I don't share your likes? 'Cause I tend to see that's the second option...
I believe you've got frustrated as some (all?) of my ratings lowered the total score of items you posted / liked. You're saying that what you deal with on Listal is not popular. So there are two most obvious choices - either you like things that aren't liked by others or you like things that aren't very popular. In first case you can't do much about that and you can't blame others for their taste. I believe that your case is the second choice - then every person's low score lowers the overall score of the stuff you posted. And so what? If you can't live with it, don't sign up to sites that allow rating items. Simple.
If you're so scrupulous observer of my profile - go and see the items I've added (those that you can rate not just vote). Do I split my tears over the forum that others "dare" to give less points than I did? I post what I like + I rate high what I like + I rate low what I don't. It's completely my choice, my opinion, my taste and so on. I'm not commenting on others' votes on "my" items and it's not my business, so my votes are not yours. Period.
I can point you to several profiles that gives only half a star (= 1 point) to virtually everything which is definitely not a case for me. Do you want them deleted just because they do so? Start your own fan site for a person / book / music style etc. you love and accept only members that share your ideas.
I believe you've got frustrated as some (all?) of my ratings lowered the total score of items you posted / liked. You're saying that what you deal with on Listal is not popular. So there are two most obvious choices - either you like things that aren't liked by others or you like things that aren't very popular. In first case you can't do much about that and you can't blame others for their taste. I believe that your case is the second choice - then every person's low score lowers the overall score of the stuff you posted. And so what? If you can't live with it, don't sign up to sites that allow rating items. Simple.
If you're so scrupulous observer of my profile - go and see the items I've added (those that you can rate not just vote). Do I split my tears over the forum that others "dare" to give less points than I did? I post what I like + I rate high what I like + I rate low what I don't. It's completely my choice, my opinion, my taste and so on. I'm not commenting on others' votes on "my" items and it's not my business, so my votes are not yours. Period.
I can point you to several profiles that gives only half a star (= 1 point) to virtually everything which is definitely not a case for me. Do you want them deleted just because they do so? Start your own fan site for a person / book / music style etc. you love and accept only members that share your ideas.
Deleted user
Deleted
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 28 16:13 - The point that JourneybyTrain is making is you clearly have absolutely no knowledge of Japanse professional wrestling and that the only reason you've bothered to rate them is for POINTS. That's what so many of us on the site are against. Clearly you are backing the argument we've made and that you the treat the site as purely a competition about points, which puts a severe dent in the system as a whole. Thus if the rules that Jaytoast mentioned still stand, this should mean all your points will know be docked. What's the point of so many of us using the site when we thought it was about interests and sharing those interests when to you it is only about getting points? Can you in any way see the contradiction there? And that what you do is needlessly insulting and contemptuous because you have no actual concept of the thing you're rating? If you had any actual knowledge of something and hated it that would fair enough, but you are rating it for points only and that is disgusting.
It challenges the very fabric and the quality of the site as a whole because people on here spend ages building challenging and intricate lists and writing reviews, they get those votes because they deserve them for being creative and interesting. That's what builds a site like this. Points for randomly rating things does absolutely nothing for the site and undermines it all, it is utterly insulting to every other user on here who has spent any time writing a review, uploading relevant pictures or constructing lists!!!!
If Tom wants this site to be about a competition for points and not actual interests then that's fine, we'll just leave the site to spammers and points whores. But as it stands I think the vast majority of users are interested in sharing a passion for films, fashion,video games art and music (and yeah hot chicks too...)etc not about blindly rating things for points. And if did degenerate into a purely a competition about points I guarantee the site would suffer hugely. Of course it's been teetering that way for years...
Ape, Jaytoast and Brazilfashion were absolutely right. Time to get rid of the points system, it served it's purpose in the past. Now it only serves the interest of childish games and acts akin to vandalism.
Please Tom, at least get rid of points for randomly rating for things. Can't you see how it makes it completely worthless for any of us to bother doing anything on the site when stuff like this happens. What's the point of having any lists at all?
It challenges the very fabric and the quality of the site as a whole because people on here spend ages building challenging and intricate lists and writing reviews, they get those votes because they deserve them for being creative and interesting. That's what builds a site like this. Points for randomly rating things does absolutely nothing for the site and undermines it all, it is utterly insulting to every other user on here who has spent any time writing a review, uploading relevant pictures or constructing lists!!!!
If Tom wants this site to be about a competition for points and not actual interests then that's fine, we'll just leave the site to spammers and points whores. But as it stands I think the vast majority of users are interested in sharing a passion for films, fashion,video games art and music (and yeah hot chicks too...)etc not about blindly rating things for points. And if did degenerate into a purely a competition about points I guarantee the site would suffer hugely. Of course it's been teetering that way for years...
Ape, Jaytoast and Brazilfashion were absolutely right. Time to get rid of the points system, it served it's purpose in the past. Now it only serves the interest of childish games and acts akin to vandalism.
Please Tom, at least get rid of points for randomly rating for things. Can't you see how it makes it completely worthless for any of us to bother doing anything on the site when stuff like this happens. What's the point of having any lists at all?
Michael M
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 29 1:55 - 
Onion Jack
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 29 9:04 - Rather than removing the points system, it just needs an overhaul. Important aspects of the site, like reviews and ratings should not be rewarded with points. The sites credibility lies with things such as this, and awarding idiots for destroying them is like asking random imbeciles to decorate your house.
List-related activity. (not comments)
Reporting inappropriate content. (Not sure that mods would welcome this.)
Adding information to item profiles.
Receiving review votes.
Adding profile info... who cares?
Video-related activity... it doesn't even seem to be a real aspect of the site.
Posting reviews... gives people a reason to post utter bum-dribble.
Posting in the forum... it should lead to a better community, but the forum here isn't really a welcoming place, so few bother.
Rating items... why reward people for just spamming the system with random numbers?
Tagging items... unless there is a set selection of available tags, this just leads to what we have now, a mess!
The reporting images option that I have included should come with the ability to deduct points for failed reports, this would kill off any attempt to garner points for random reports. It's just an idea that could help clean up the site... not that it would get me back reporting, somebody made sure of that.
I've probably missed stuff here, or possibly made little sense, I've not been awake long. This is only an opinion anyway, and I don't expect all to agree.
Edit: There also seems to be an increasing trend in copying gallery images to personal images, and then using those in lists, this can only be for points reasons, and should not be welcomed. I have been known to occasionally post cropped versions in my personal selection, but that is because I square images off in my lists and they don't always fit. Posting masses of identical images to personals though is surely an insult to the people who have taken the time to source the gallery images in the first place, it means that they are missing out on the votes because of the selfishness of others. Since personal galleries are pretty much a rule-free zone, there is currently nothing to stop this abuse. Perhaps the answer is to not reward points for images posted in personal galleries, I'm tempted to suggest the removal of votes for these images too, but some images don't fit into other areas of the site, so perhaps that would be a step too far...
...just like removing the whole points system would be in the battle against the abusers.
Points should be for:
Image-related activity. (not comments)List-related activity. (not comments)
Reporting inappropriate content. (Not sure that mods would welcome this.)
Adding information to item profiles.
Receiving review votes.
Points should not be for:
Adding comments... that leads to pointless crap.Adding profile info... who cares?
Video-related activity... it doesn't even seem to be a real aspect of the site.
Posting reviews... gives people a reason to post utter bum-dribble.
Posting in the forum... it should lead to a better community, but the forum here isn't really a welcoming place, so few bother.
Rating items... why reward people for just spamming the system with random numbers?
Tagging items... unless there is a set selection of available tags, this just leads to what we have now, a mess!
The reporting images option that I have included should come with the ability to deduct points for failed reports, this would kill off any attempt to garner points for random reports. It's just an idea that could help clean up the site... not that it would get me back reporting, somebody made sure of that.
I've probably missed stuff here, or possibly made little sense, I've not been awake long. This is only an opinion anyway, and I don't expect all to agree.
Edit: There also seems to be an increasing trend in copying gallery images to personal images, and then using those in lists, this can only be for points reasons, and should not be welcomed. I have been known to occasionally post cropped versions in my personal selection, but that is because I square images off in my lists and they don't always fit. Posting masses of identical images to personals though is surely an insult to the people who have taken the time to source the gallery images in the first place, it means that they are missing out on the votes because of the selfishness of others. Since personal galleries are pretty much a rule-free zone, there is currently nothing to stop this abuse. Perhaps the answer is to not reward points for images posted in personal galleries, I'm tempted to suggest the removal of votes for these images too, but some images don't fit into other areas of the site, so perhaps that would be a step too far...
...just like removing the whole points system would be in the battle against the abusers.
Deleted user
Deleted
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 29 9:32 - I agree with Onion Jack saw your list Micheal M, but I am for the points system but only for important things.
Me I think that you should receive points for votes, reviews, lists, adding correct information to profiles.
Not for tagging, uploading pictures, picture views, rating, adding videos, and posting comments.
Something needs to be done, because I have been going through profile pics etc and some are a mess because of duplicates and images that are too small etc, also tagging etc some tags are horrific calling people whores dogs etc.
I enjoy listal for the fact you can contribute, I also enjoy looking at a clean profile but there are so many abused by others I think Tom needs to think about the points and change them for the good.
Me I think that you should receive points for votes, reviews, lists, adding correct information to profiles.
Not for tagging, uploading pictures, picture views, rating, adding videos, and posting comments.
Something needs to be done, because I have been going through profile pics etc and some are a mess because of duplicates and images that are too small etc, also tagging etc some tags are horrific calling people whores dogs etc.
I enjoy listal for the fact you can contribute, I also enjoy looking at a clean profile but there are so many abused by others I think Tom needs to think about the points and change them for the good.
Deleted user
Deleted
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 29 13:55 - I'll be signing Michael M's petition. But I'd much if prefer points went to people who actually deserve it, so I agree with Onion Jack and dannyjai in that regard. As long as something is actually done about it then I'd be happy, one thing is for certain those that rate items in order to get points is irritating beyond belief...it actually beggars belief that anybody would use the site in that regard. I think we're all in agreement there.
I completely agree that if there has to be a points system it shouldn't go to tagging, uploading pictures, picture views, rating, adding videos, and posting comments.
I completely agree that if there has to be a points system it shouldn't go to tagging, uploading pictures, picture views, rating, adding videos, and posting comments.
fantaginamaria
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 29 14:39 - very easy people
Onion Jack
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 29 14:43 - Just to be clear, I'm not against points for uploading images, but it does seem to get a bit messy out there. Masses of images of the same event/walk/dog plop collection, duplicate images and blown up images in an attempt to have the largest on offer regardless of quality. I know rules are in place to prevent some of this, but I'm not sure how effective it has all proven to be.
I support a points reward for those who take the time to source good quality images, or at least the best available. I can't always be bothered so I value those who can because they help me make my lists.
I support a points reward for those who take the time to source good quality images, or at least the best available. I can't always be bothered so I value those who can because they help me make my lists.
Moderator
The O.P.
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 29 18:31 - All in all, I'm in favor of the point system. Yes, some users do "cheat", but they can be stopped if you can prove they are breaking the rules.
However, I believe most users do not abuse the system, they just do their thing, so it would be wrong to dismiss the whole system just because of some abuses.
Besides, I don't see a huge problem with ratings and tags. If you think of it, it takes much less effort for a "point whore" to create an image list with eight random pictures (300 points) than to gain the same points by rating hundreds of items or adding hundreds of tags (3 points per item).
However, I believe most users do not abuse the system, they just do their thing, so it would be wrong to dismiss the whole system just because of some abuses.
Besides, I don't see a huge problem with ratings and tags. If you think of it, it takes much less effort for a "point whore" to create an image list with eight random pictures (300 points) than to gain the same points by rating hundreds of items or adding hundreds of tags (3 points per item).
Dark Warrior
10 years, 4 months ago at Dec 30 15:50 - i agree with Onion Jack & The O.P. and i'm in favor of a more restricted point system because there's too much users who are posting some pics to get a tons of points and i notice that some of them don't even create any list at all. it's easy to spot them because they can do 25 000 points in a couple of hours. i think it would be a error to cut down the point system only because a dozen of users are addicted too points.
Onion Jack
10 years, 3 months ago at Dec 30 16:14 - A revision to my viewpoint on the uploading of images. Perhaps people should only be rewarded for votes on the images, instead of the actual act of uploading them. There are many images that have no votes and next to no views, so they are just wasting server space, and perhaps binning the upload points would push people towards quality over quantity.
I'll probably change my mind again in the near future, I won't let you know if I do. :)
I'll probably change my mind again in the near future, I won't let you know if I do. :)
Deleted user
Deleted
10 years, 3 months ago at Dec 30 18:54 - ^ This would be rather unfair on people who post pictures of actors and movies from other countries that don't get as much views and votes, whereas for people posting mainstream Hollywood and US/UK celebs and movies, then they will get plenty of views and votes. There is already the system in place to only count 10 or more views to count towards points after 3 months, so it is already restrictive when it comes to non-mainstream non-u.s movies, celebs, etc.
Also in regards to tagging, I've come across plenty of pointless tags, but it is very helpful for people to put e.g. genre, country, year, decade, movie/tv series tags, as it is helpful to find more relevant movies, tv and music through searching via the tags. So this is just as relevant and helpful to the database.
Also in regards to tagging, I've come across plenty of pointless tags, but it is very helpful for people to put e.g. genre, country, year, decade, movie/tv series tags, as it is helpful to find more relevant movies, tv and music through searching via the tags. So this is just as relevant and helpful to the database.
Onion Jack
10 years, 3 months ago at Dec 30 19:28 - Fair point about the three months, so I guess I am letting you know that I fall back to my original stance.
I'm just trying to feel around the different problems with the current system. I just think that binning points altogether is too simplistic an answer to the problem.
...That said, if all the concerns are going to be ignored anyway (this has clearly been discussed quite a lot before), then perhaps abolition is the only course of action.
I'm just trying to feel around the different problems with the current system. I just think that binning points altogether is too simplistic an answer to the problem.
...That said, if all the concerns are going to be ignored anyway (this has clearly been discussed quite a lot before), then perhaps abolition is the only course of action.
Moderator The O.P.
10 years, 3 months ago at Dec 30 20:35 - Problem is, there are item profiles with no pics at all or just a few, which badly need some uploads, and others with tons of pics like the most popular movies and people.
That's why I'd give a greater reward for the pictures uploaded to "empty" or almost empty profiles, say 20 points each to the first 10 images, then 10 points for pictures #11 to #100, and fewer points for the pictures uploaded to an already "busy" profile, say 5 points each if the profile has 100 images already. Then, the usual rule applies: if the pic doesn't get enough visits, you lose the points.
That's why I'd give a greater reward for the pictures uploaded to "empty" or almost empty profiles, say 20 points each to the first 10 images, then 10 points for pictures #11 to #100, and fewer points for the pictures uploaded to an already "busy" profile, say 5 points each if the profile has 100 images already. Then, the usual rule applies: if the pic doesn't get enough visits, you lose the points.
Dark Warrior
10 years, 3 months ago at Dec 31 1:31 - i think due to listal vote & point system it makes it different from other site and it's fun to see wich list that we create will be the most popular.
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Maggie
10 years, 3 months ago at Dec 31 20:16 - Guys, as much as I love a good game of Verbal-War-With-Darkwhore, let's try not to turn this thread into a brawl. Too many topics have been brought down with crap like that.
Moderator The O.P.
10 years, 3 months ago at Jan 1 10:42 - Like I wrote as a comment to Michael M's petition for the removal of the point system...
I am for keeping the point system, not for removing it. The reason is that you don't throw out the baby with the bath water. If there are abuses, they should be punished, but most users do not abuse the system, I believe. The point system as such is not a bad thing nor a good thing. It is just a number that shows who contributes the most to the site. Some people contribute interesting stuff, others contribute junk.
It's the same as for the voting system. People like their lists being voted. Quality lists get votes, but junk lists get votes too! Not a reason to cancel the voting system, though.
I am for keeping the point system, not for removing it. The reason is that you don't throw out the baby with the bath water. If there are abuses, they should be punished, but most users do not abuse the system, I believe. The point system as such is not a bad thing nor a good thing. It is just a number that shows who contributes the most to the site. Some people contribute interesting stuff, others contribute junk.
It's the same as for the voting system. People like their lists being voted. Quality lists get votes, but junk lists get votes too! Not a reason to cancel the voting system, though.
Deleted user
Deleted
10 years, 3 months ago at Jan 1 11:59 - I think you're underestimating the amount of abuse that goes on in the site and the amount of damage it has on the overall quality. And lets face it the abusers are so rarely actually dealt with...by taking the points system away you're extinguishing a good percentage of the temptation that drives the habit that those particular users have.
The site should be about welcoming new users to contribute imaginative lists and share their interests and hobbies with a peaceful community who are open to new things. Instead we're sending the new user into a battle ground of a points systems, we're bribing them to upload pictures with the promise of a higher ranking(etc) I believe in the most extreme of circumstances this either has the effect of making an "abuser" of the system, those who have an unhealthy addiction to points and ranking or in the vast majority of cases I believe it simply drives people away. Why would a potential user want to join such a childish game in which points outweighs content? When all she or he wants to do is settle down and share and explore their interests and hobbies. Instead of welcoming new users with open arms, Listal is creating a power struggle. How is that any way to welcome potential users?
In the end content is everything, it gives the site meaning, it gives it imagination and colour, it makes it attractive to potential new users. And at the heart of the matter: the points system is meaningless. It matters nowt. There's no getting away from that. Why give something that is basically irrelevant and open to abuse so much importance by keeping it?
The site should be about welcoming new users to contribute imaginative lists and share their interests and hobbies with a peaceful community who are open to new things. Instead we're sending the new user into a battle ground of a points systems, we're bribing them to upload pictures with the promise of a higher ranking(etc) I believe in the most extreme of circumstances this either has the effect of making an "abuser" of the system, those who have an unhealthy addiction to points and ranking or in the vast majority of cases I believe it simply drives people away. Why would a potential user want to join such a childish game in which points outweighs content? When all she or he wants to do is settle down and share and explore their interests and hobbies. Instead of welcoming new users with open arms, Listal is creating a power struggle. How is that any way to welcome potential users?
In the end content is everything, it gives the site meaning, it gives it imagination and colour, it makes it attractive to potential new users. And at the heart of the matter: the points system is meaningless. It matters nowt. There's no getting away from that. Why give something that is basically irrelevant and open to abuse so much importance by keeping it?
Moderator The O.P.
10 years, 3 months ago at Jan 1 12:45 - I see what you mean, Orpheus, and I am not denying that there are abuses/overuses which should be dealt with (see below), but I see the advantages of the system too. It is an extra motivation for those who contribute to the site, as they are rewarded with points and rank. Maybe you and others don't need such extra motivation, as you would contribute exactly the same as you do now just for the sake of sharing what you like. I guess I would do the same, most probably. Yet, not all users are created equal. Human psychology includes social reward systems to spur people to do things.
Besides, I wouldn't be so sure that no scoring system means no junk. In all Internet communities there are certain members who trash the place with meaningless or bad taste stuff, even when they are not rewarded with points.
I think the real issue is how to deal with abuses and overuses. Maybe we need an IGNORE THEIR LISTS command so that we don't see the lists by Listal users we chose to ignore, for instance in the "Recently voted lists". How would you like that? :)
Besides, I wouldn't be so sure that no scoring system means no junk. In all Internet communities there are certain members who trash the place with meaningless or bad taste stuff, even when they are not rewarded with points.
I think the real issue is how to deal with abuses and overuses. Maybe we need an IGNORE THEIR LISTS command so that we don't see the lists by Listal users we chose to ignore, for instance in the "Recently voted lists". How would you like that? :)
Deleted user
Deleted
10 years, 3 months ago at Jan 1 13:51 - You mentioned that before and the fact of the matter is that is just ignoring doesn't make it go away, that's just sweeping the problem under the carpet, which could only escalate matters, I mean you'd be pretty much be encouraging the abuse then.And yet more for the mods to deal with...and it's not just a matter of the content or quality of the lists, it's way bigger than that. People may well hate my lists because they have different tastes and that's fair enough. It's the effect the abuse has on the overall potential of the site that bothers me, and that the points system encourages abuse. That the thirst for points and rankings eclipses the content ,depth or hell just the fun of sharing and exploring the users particular interests.
I guess the most frustrating thing is that from my perspective (and quite possibly everybody who signed the petition) is that those who protect the points system seem to care more about their rankings and points accumulation over the rest of the site. I'm not being rude, but that's just how it comes across. I mean that's exactly what the site with a points system encourages, it encourages an individual to regard their ranking to be more important than the overall quality of the site and the potential that site has to grow. Human psychology is different with everybody, true. And the points system the way it is encourages the psychological standpoint of (or at least has the potential for)selfishness. Is that really what you want Listal to be? Fair game if you do. But that's always going to be detrimental to the site, its existing community and its potential for growth.
I guess the most frustrating thing is that from my perspective (and quite possibly everybody who signed the petition) is that those who protect the points system seem to care more about their rankings and points accumulation over the rest of the site. I'm not being rude, but that's just how it comes across. I mean that's exactly what the site with a points system encourages, it encourages an individual to regard their ranking to be more important than the overall quality of the site and the potential that site has to grow. Human psychology is different with everybody, true. And the points system the way it is encourages the psychological standpoint of (or at least has the potential for)selfishness. Is that really what you want Listal to be? Fair game if you do. But that's always going to be detrimental to the site, its existing community and its potential for growth.
Moderator The O.P.
10 years, 3 months ago at Jan 1 19:17 - Have to say I don't like the personal way you put it. If I speak in favor of the system Tom created, then I don't care about the overall quality of the site? That's nonsense. You may not agree with them, but I gave my reasons for supporting Listal's current scoring + voting system, as it is a psychological spur for many users to contribute and make Listal a great place as it actually is, both in quality and quantity, both for the movie buff and the fan of celebrities--and many others. Listal itself is the proof in the pudding that the system works, in spite of the problems. Not everybody needs rewards such as points and votes, agreed, but I guess social rewards do please many: it's human nature. The abuses of the few should be dealt with and punished, not ruin the game for the many. Anything else that you or I don't like, but is not against the rules, we can ignore by de-selecting the categories we are not interested in, or by using new commands like the one I suggested, "Ignore (don't show) their lists", with users whose lists we usually don't like. Sorry I am repeating myself, I'm going to shut up now, but I don't like being told I don't care about this site.
Deleted user
Deleted
10 years, 3 months ago at Jan 1 19:32 - Well I apologize the way it come across, I really wasn't pointing my finger at you in particular. I know you care a lot about the site and I know that you'd still use it as much even if there wasn't a points system. I really didn't mean for it be a personal attack, I think the system itself is what's to blame. I'm very passionate that the point system needs to be looked at and unfortunately my passion can come across as barbed attacks, for that I once again apologize.
My feeling is some overestimate how popular Listal actually is. It really is a rather small internet community. The vast majority of people have never heard of it, which is quite sad I think. Have you seen the sites rankings on Alexa? Not all that great. Listal has the potential to be HUGE, it has so much promise. But most new users set up an account and mess around with it for a while and then they're gone (Look at the bounce rate on Alexa, most users look at one page and then they are gone!). The points system isn't the only reason for this, but I think it may play a significant factor.
I'm going to shut up too (really this time lol), because I keep repeating myself and ultimately I'm spent. I have nothing else to really say on the matter. We will have to agree to disagree.
My feeling is some overestimate how popular Listal actually is. It really is a rather small internet community. The vast majority of people have never heard of it, which is quite sad I think. Have you seen the sites rankings on Alexa? Not all that great. Listal has the potential to be HUGE, it has so much promise. But most new users set up an account and mess around with it for a while and then they're gone (Look at the bounce rate on Alexa, most users look at one page and then they are gone!). The points system isn't the only reason for this, but I think it may play a significant factor.
I'm going to shut up too (really this time lol), because I keep repeating myself and ultimately I'm spent. I have nothing else to really say on the matter. We will have to agree to disagree.
Onion Jack
10 years, 3 months ago at Jan 1 19:33 - The abuses of the few should be dealt with and punished, not ruin the game for the many.
Comments like this make me wonder about my own stance on this issue. Should Listal really be seen as a game?
My last input for the time being.
Deleted user
Deleted
10 years, 3 months ago at Jan 1 19:40 - Exactly O.J, that's the point, ha ha. Is Listal a game? And is the game that some people are playing detrimental to the rest of the community who see it as something else entirely?
Moderator The O.P.
10 years, 3 months ago at Jan 2 17:57 - Game: "An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime".
www.thefreedictionary.com/game
So, yes, Listal is a game, too.
www.thefreedictionary.com/game
So, yes, Listal is a game, too.
Onion Jack
10 years, 3 months ago at Jan 2 18:25 - Well done, you've persuaded me that I was wrong about the points system.
Now that really is all that I have to say about this.
Now that really is all that I have to say about this.
Michael M
10 years, 3 months ago at Jan 3 2:26 - The petition has now left the main page so I presume it now has the majority of signatures it will receive. Hopefully Tom will take note of it.
Thanks to everyone who took part!
Thanks to everyone who took part!
Anautix
10 years, 3 months ago at Jan 3 11:21 - Shall we now make for every suggestion a list and hope to get more attention?
Moderator The O.P.
10 years, 3 months ago at Jan 3 12:25 - @O.J. I'll respect whatever final stance you take on the issue at hand, but I hope you decide on the merits. I'd be surprised if you were persuaded by a single word I used! Just to be clear, when I wrote
I meant it in a broad, figurative sense to mean that the abuses of the few should not spoil the rightful activities of the many who abide by the rules. That's why I wrote the word in italics, as I didn't mean it literally. Maybe I should have been be more wary in using figurative talk in a language that is not my own, but I never thought of Listal as just a silly competition, if that's what you have in mind. Besides, Listal can be fun and entertaining too, so I would not frown upon the word "game" anyway. I think Listal can be many things at the same time.
...The abuses of the few should be dealt with and punished, not ruin the game for the many.
I meant it in a broad, figurative sense to mean that the abuses of the few should not spoil the rightful activities of the many who abide by the rules. That's why I wrote the word in italics, as I didn't mean it literally. Maybe I should have been be more wary in using figurative talk in a language that is not my own, but I never thought of Listal as just a silly competition, if that's what you have in mind. Besides, Listal can be fun and entertaining too, so I would not frown upon the word "game" anyway. I think Listal can be many things at the same time.