Merging items proposal

I am designing a merging system for games, dvds, music and books.

The only problem is to make it simple I can only allow people to list 1 edition of an item in their collection/listings. e.g. If you have :
www.listal.com/game/sierra-best-sellers-halflife-pc
www.listal.com/game/halflife-pc-14692
www.listal.com/game/halflife-pc

Listed in your collection (you own 3 copys of the game in 3 different editions). 2 of the listings will disappear and tags/reviews from those 2 will be added to the remaining one. The edition that will remain will be the current most popular one on listal.

Basically :
You will still be able to choose the edition you own, you just can't list multiple editions

If you have only 1 edition of any game listed it will still list that you own that version but will link to the merged entry

Since this is not final, I want to see if this bothers anyone, it would be great if you could indicate like this in a reply to this thread :

Games : I want to list multiple version
Books : Don't care
DVDs : I want to list multiple version
Music : Don't care

Most likely I will not end up doing this system with books or DVDs (not sure about music yet) since people sometimes collect multiple versions of the same book/album/dvd but I want to see what the reaction is first.

There will be a single page for each game on the same platform and a box where you can choose which edition you own and a little more information about each edition e.g. amazon link, title, small description, cover.

i wouldn't want to see that anywhere, since i own e.g. one movie even three times (regular, tin box director's cut, collector's edition)

that also applies to some people i know - and some of them also own various editions of games. i think that e.g. most people who bought the limited edition of resident evil 4 are fans of the series who will have bought the regular version months before the LE was released.

Games: Don't care
Books: Undecided
DVDs: Don't care
Music: Don't care

(odd choice in wording, Tom lol)

I look forward to having all game editions, US/UK, NTSC/PAL, normal and re-issue and platinum releases, all merged into one entry. So many more tags/reviews/images/videos/ratings, and so much less confusion when searching for a game.

A few things:
- Will merging of items still be done manually, and only by approved users and/or people with 20,000 (or more) points?
- Will item merging be undo-able, if someone for example groups 'Oblivion' with 'Oblivion: Game of the Year Edition' (the later being a 'compilation' which includes both expansion packs as well as original game)?
- Can 'primary' item be changed? for some games, the most 'popular' item is the 'SoldOut Software re-release. I know it doesn't really matter, but maybe the least popular item is correct one, with correct release date, manufacturer info, description and cover art. As long as we can set which is 'primary' item, it should be fine.

and final question, what would happen to custom lists that group several of these editions right now? I'd rather them all show up as duplicates on the lists, and let the list authors clean it up, then the items getting deleted out of lists, complete with any and all custom notes that have been added to its list entry.

Can't wait to see this in action. :)

i wouldn't want to see that anywhere, since i own e.g. one movie even three times (regular, tin box director's cut, collector's edition)

Sh4dow, it would useful to have sub-items shown within the item page, as many PAL versions of games have very different box art, and even different titles. A picture speaks a thousands words, so for people adding games to their lists, if they dont recognize the US cover, it may help them to see the UK cover for reference in knowing if they played the game or not.

chibiyusa,

There will be a single page for each game on the same platform and a box where you can choose which edition you own and a little more information about each edition e.g. amazon link, title, small description, cover.

hope that addresses your concern. In the area where you can check off which editions you have, you can have unique titles and descriptions.

Games: Dont Care
Books: Dont Care
DVDs: Don't care
Music: Don't care

Basically up for a merging of every medium, especially music and games. I like you're idea...I'm a green light all the way.

Go forth and merge.

Games: Dont Care
Books: Dont Care
DVDs: Don't care
Music: Don't care

Basically up for a merging of every medium, especially music and games. I like you're idea...I'm a green light all the way.

Go forth and merge.

DITTO

Personally, I use a database that I bought and adore! to keep track of which game, which dvd (region/year/cover etc), music album, and book I own. Listal for me is simply used as a tool to let my friends and contacts know what I have available, so we can discuss a certain item.

For some people this actually helps because I know a number of people have added multiple versions of games by mistake.

Would one be able to denote that they own multiple editions?

Not with this proposed system.

it will also help 'Recommendations' system a lot. Kinda annoying that if you have Half-Life 2, you get recommended Half-Life 2 (European/UK version) :)

It really does help; I reviewed the same album twice without realising. I also agree that it will help the recommendation system. I spent ages deleted my duplicates before the restore; couldnt be bothered to do it again after. Plus I have reviewed one version of 'The Picture of Dorian Gray' while 2 of my friends have reviewed 2 other versions! Although I understand with second edition, appendices and illustration differences, a book merge might find some resistance.

There will be a single page for each game on the same platform and a box where you can choose which edition you own and a little more information about each edition e.g. amazon link, title, small description, cover.

Do you choose your platform? Or each platform has a page?

I don't understand that part.

Games : Don't care
Books : Don't care
DVDs : I want to list multiple version
Music : Don't care

If the merged page lists all the different editions for each book, game, etc.. and they can be ticked off, so you can see at a glance which editions you own (as per the description above), that would not be unreasonable.

I think it would be prudent to test first with games. If that goes well, the change can be rolled to the other categories, one by one. Actually using it will give us a better idea of how it will fly.

I don't care on any. I don't really see the point in having different book covers or whatnot. As long as we keep Special Editions and such, or if that was an option under the main CD.

Games : Don't care
Books : Don't care
DVDs : Don't care
Music : Don't care

Dvd's are the only items I have more than one version of. I would really like to see this change made in books most of all.

For the games and music I really don't mind but the DVDs and Books I'm a bit more iffy on.

Not sure if Tom mentioned it in this thread, but he did mention to me in PM that Games and Music will likely get this 'merge', but DVDs will be tackled different, via some sort of linking up with IMDB entries. It's Books section that is hardest to figure out, but he's looking into merging it with another database on the net which would help organize up all duplicates rather than a simple listal merge.

Hope this clarifies it for some of you concerned about your books and dvd editions.

and p.s. Games would be first to get this merge feature. I don't mind using that section as the guinea pig, since its one I'm most familiar with and we've currently got a few key members cleaning up many of the entries. Also all the Game Lists that have been made will help out in figuring out which items to merge and which to leave as seperate entries.

Games : Don't care
Books : Don't care
DVDs : Dont' care
Music : Don't care

Merge it all I say! All the duplicates and different versions drive me bonkers and I think I'm nuts enough thanks very much. Sure there are different versions to a number of things but in the end, I don't care. I'm over it...

Games : Don't want
Books : Don't care
DVDs : Don't want
Music : Don't care

It's really a hard thing for me as I feel like I want to sort through the whole mess but I still want to have a accurate account of what I have so my friends and I can tell which I have.

Tom, can you read my mind? :-)

I have only 35 items in my DVD list right now, but most are "stand-alone" items (i.e. I am the only one owning them). Which simply isn't true, it's just that there aren't any other people here owning the *German* edition of that film. So I am all for merging DVD editions. As long as it is possible to see which edition a person owns (on his personal DVD page), I don't see a problem. I agree with putting up a points requirement for merging the items (I am a member at LibraryThing, and it's really great fun to undo the tangle after someone combined all books of an author into one "Work"/item...--not!)
We would basically need a "work" view (listing the most popular item) and a "personal/my item" view, which shows me my edition(s).

Games : Don't care
Books : Don't care (I list my books elsewhere)
DVDs : OK, as long as I can see *my* edition somewhere.
Music : I want to list multiple version (you'll get into deep trouble with the collectors of classical music, otherwise... ;-))

Yes, Yes, Yes!

I couldn't agree more with a mass merge. The game section, while being salvaged by select members, is still a wasteland of doops and versh's. Single page, multiple version 'clicky's' on each of those pages would work wonders for everyone.

I hate recommending a game/book to someone who already has another version that they have rated. One banner!

Games: Dont Care
Books: Dont Care
DVDs: Don't care
Music: Don't care

I can live with it, but that's only because I mostly only own one version of each game or DVD or CD, ignoring a few exceptions. However I know A LOT of collectors myself who like to collect different version. IMO, it's a negative change. I like the idea of every 'edition' of one DVD or CD or game linking to the same 'hub' so to speak but I dislike the idea of losing the ability to have multiple versions.

One other thing that should be sweet if fixed, if I might add, are the tags. Its great you can add tags but it's not that cool that you see them with each item of your collection. If I want to stroll through my lists of collections its very fucked up to see all these tags next to them. It stretches out the page, it feels unconfortable. It would be great if it would just say 'see tags' next to it and THEN you would see your tags.

Games: Dont Care
Books: Dont Care
DVDs: Don't care
Music: Don't care

Merge away!

One thing to watch out for, Tom, are games that are identical but have totally different titles:

www.listal.com/game/great-war-nations-spartans-pc
www.listal.com/game/sparta-fate-hellas-windows-xp

Searching for the word 'Hellas' should bring up the Spartans entry, if Hellas is 'merged' with it.

Of course, it would be handy to implement it this way, and kill a dozen birds with one stone:
www.listal.com/groups/viewthread/8387

"add another edition"-link

i hope this is somehow comprehensible... ;-)

Hello :)

Games : Don't Care
Books : Don't care
DVDs : Don't care
Music : Vital you can list multiple versions.

To explain (in my case), different versions of singles - 7", CD1, CD2, DVD, 12", and so on. I've got four different versions of the same single in some cases!

People are less likely to own multiple versions of an album, although it can occur when something gets re-released with a bonus CD/DVD or similar, or they may own on multiple formats - old stuff on vinyl, then repurchased on CD.

I'd also appreciate it if items with no people having it on their owned/wanted/heard lists aren't automatically deleted - a number of them are referenced on my lists either through links, or use of their images. It'll take quite some time, but it can all be cleaned up providing that the amazon search doesn't keep automatically adding loads of rubbish :)

yeah, I agree, don't delete items which have zero people listing them. I make 'new' game lists, and almost all of them have zero people listing it (they are new games, after, or upcoming titles). Or all those old DOS or Commodore 64 titles, just because they have zero people listing doesnt mean its not an important title appearing on custom lists.

Games: Undecided
Books: Undecided
DVDs: Undecided
Music: Undecided

I think I'll have to sit out on this one... I see the pros and cons for each and can't decide.

I must say I am rather anxious to see how this new merging will work.

To explain (in my case), different versions of singles - 7", CD1, CD2, DVD, 12", and so on. I've got four different versions of the same single in some cases!

CD1 and CD2 would always be considered different content. Merging identical releases on different formats is debatable but we can always stick to merging the same formats only.

I'd also appreciate it if items with no people having it on their owned/wanted/heard lists aren't automatically deleted

Not planning on ever deleting anything from the database.

If that's the case with different content meaning different releases, then US, UK and Japanese releases of the same album often wouldn't be able to be merged, which gets us back to square one on ratings and reviews - which was half the point in the first place wasn't it? For example, Blur's debut album Leisure has different content depending on territory - replacing one track with another for the US version, and the Japanese release having multiple bonus tracks. And that's not uncommon - it's the case with all seven albums released.

I'm partially playing devils advocate here (I think what you're proposing wouldn't affect my particular requirements), but it does seem a kind of halfway house in terms of music that solves very little since "duplicates" usually aren't true dupes, but just similar releases with minor differences. Personally I'd rather nothing was done until there's a solution that fully works, but that is (of course) just my opinion.

Phil, merging would be done manually by key users (maybe mods, maybe high-points members)

I feel the same way, that care must be taken when merging, and only true duplicates with same content should be merged, and only way to do so is on a case-by-case basis.

A set of rules/guide lines should be setup.

Example, for music, only albums on same media, with same tracks, are to be merged (as in all country-specific albums and re-prints that have same tracks). As soon as there is any change to track list, it should NOT be merged.

Same goes with games. What would be merged is NTSC/PAL versions, US/UK versions, and all their dozen's of re-issues. Even Collector's editons and Limited editions, say that include a mouse pad, or a t-shirt, or a collectible figurine with your game, as long as the core game is the same, they will be merged. But any re-issue that includes a bunch of extra levels, or an expansion pack is now included in re-print of the original game, such items will NOT be merged.

So really, its a win-win situation - all true duplicates will be amalgamated, but any truly different versions will be kept unique. And if we allow items to be merged and unmerged, and only allow certain members to do this, its really only way. I cant see any automated way to group them.

taking Tom's first examples, these are the same games, and should be merged into one entry:

www.listal.com/game/sierra-best-sellers-halflife-pc
www.listal.com/game/halflife-pc-14692
www.listal.com/game/halflife-pc

and these three games, also technically Half-Life 1, would NOT be merged, but kept seperate:

www.listal.com/game/halflife-initial-encounter-pc
Demo version of Half-Life, only Day One level

www.listal.com/game/halflife-uplink-pc-games
A different demo version of Half-life, with a completely different level.

www.listal.com/game/halflife-game-year-edition-pc
Half-Life re-issue, Game of the Year edition, but with extra maps and 'Team Fortress' add-on.

No, I get that, and I'm happy with that myself to a point (although I suspect some people won't be).

I'm simply pointing out the flaws in the context of music (and they may apply elsewhere) to ensure they've been thought about. To summarise:
1) Reviews/ratings will not be combined where they probably should be.
2) Different versions of items will be recommended to users when they already own one.
3) The database will remain very messy on searches, since the majority of "duplicates" with music are actually variations.

I suspect you may well find something similar within DVD and Books - the extras/languages/notes on the text and suchlike will vary in most cases, although don't know the data well enough to judge. This is essentially why I've tended to advocate linking at a different level from this - so all copies listed under one item, but any number of individual releases can be selected, added and viewed in more detail.

That said, so long as no-one's going to go around merging and nuking items arbitrarily this won't do any harm, I just don't see it as an ultimate solution to the problem :o)

So would it be better to link/merge up albums, even if there's a few track differences? I mean, if the album is linked, and you see alternate cover for different edition, and you see extra note that says 'Japanese Import with 2 extra tracks', and you can check off that's the one you have, I don't see any harm in merging the items.

I think people with extensive Music and/or book collections would be best suited to determine what should and shouldn't be merged in those areas. My area of expertise is Games and for the most part, feel confident how to clean up the database and merge up items in the Games section. (and I'd say a good 60 to 70% of those items can be merged)

Just expanding on Prelude's thoughs and thinking out loud:

I think we need a clear definition of what constitutes a "version" and what a "work", first.
At a library, you'll find works of authors, i.e. "Harry Potter and the Philosophers' Stone" by JK Rowling. Now, there are two main English Versions of this, which vary only by one word in the title (philosophers'/sorcerers' stone). And there are tons of translations. All these contain the same content, in English or translation, so can be combined into one "work". You could still have all versions listed, like they do here: www.librarything.com/work/2805100/debris/

With music, it's more difficult. What is a "work" in this case? With the album "Help" by the Beatles, I'd think there are few problems. One artist (group), one album. Maybe different editions, with different covers, but no substantial changes in content or artists.
With classical music (or orchestral) music it gets muddled very quickly. Is Beethoven's Ninth a "work"? Or Beethoven's Ninth as played by the Berlin Philharmonic? And what if I happen to collect as many versions of Beethoven's Ninth as possible? There needs to be a decision on what is the leading info here: The composer? The artist/performers? The title?

With films, the problem wouldn't be as big, actually. The main film is usually the same. So that could be considered a "work" (e.g. "The Abyss", Dir. James Cameron). Different editions (with different extras, interviews, etc.) would be versions to listed under that work. Even the extended version would be just another version under that work. So clicking on any given film would give you a list of versions (cinematic version, extended cut, foreign language versions, extra-special-super box ;-) ). I have no idea on how to handle those "three different movies in a box" editions though. They'd probably need to stand alone.

An automatic merge would lead to all sorts of unintended consequences, I'd think.
My guess would be that a manual merge function would be the best solution for things other than clearly identical versions (same title, artist(s), composer, EAN and label).

I thought about it for a while and I think the merging is a good idea now.

For instance it seems like I dont have GTA IV, but I do, I just have the special edition.

I don't have the time to read through all of this thread but tell me this: isn't it an option to still have different versions, but to connect them all to the 'central' version?

Slow week at work for me. Eagerly awaiting this new feature

LOTS of spare time to kick off a merge marathon :)

To be honest, what I feel should be done with the music database probably depends on the facilities that Tom makes available. Essentially though, I'd probably suggest that usually for "popular" music, albums are a single "work" and should be linked together while singles on different formats (as mentioned above) should be left as separate items since tracklistings are usually significantly different. I'll expand when less tired though (just got back from a long weekend of drinking!)

Thilian, those 'duplicates' I plan on re-introducing into their categories after merging is in place. Some don't know how to remove items from their lists, or never plan on going thru their lists again. If we rename these 'duplicates' back to original, and add (re-issue) or (custom entry) or (dupe) or something like that, we can then merge them with original and it will only appear as another checkbox in main entry, so it would be in effect 'deleted' and cleaned up.

Unfortunately all these 'Duplicate' images are now going to be merged into the master items image gallery, maybe I can find some way of removing them, I had no idea so many had been uploaded.

don't worry about that, Tom. They served their purpose to help us distinguish the dupes, but that's before I knew merging would be coming. Now when I bring them back into the merge, I'll delete those 'duplicate' images and restore the title. All those dupes with 0 people listing it however, they can remain buried, right?

It would be nice to give mods option to delete images (we had that for a brief time).

Once an item is merged, many games have had 'NTSC' covers uploaded to the PAL version and vice versa, and now we'd have a master gallery of 2 or more NTSC covers and 2 or more PAL covers.