LoginSuggestion: Solution for foreign titles
VIP Moderator
Prelude
18 years ago at May 5 1:29 - There is obviously a problem when it comes to foreign titles. For those who don't speak the language, they'd obviously want the english name displayed, so they'd recognize the film. But for German users on here, it gets confusing and annoying having to search thru their database only seeing the english name (both names get shown when on item page). I get that way with czech films. Some people may know the classic film 'The Shop on Main Street', but I know it by it's real title, 'Obchod na korze'. Then again, I don't speak German, so I refer to the 'Edukators' film by that name, while its true name is something completely different. So solution would be chaotic, asking each user which languages to treat as primary.
So I thought of something and tried it out on my Czech movies. Make just ONE title, foreign name first, and English name (if applicable) in brackets. Then it gets displayed prominently like so:
bwde.listal.com/all/movies/1/?tag=czech
What do you all think?
It may get cluttered when in 3 column view, but in all other views, it works perfectly.
Comments/concerns?
So I thought of something and tried it out on my Czech movies. Make just ONE title, foreign name first, and English name (if applicable) in brackets. Then it gets displayed prominently like so:
bwde.listal.com/all/movies/1/?tag=czech
What do you all think?
It may get cluttered when in 3 column view, but in all other views, it works perfectly.
Comments/concerns?
Ipanema
18 years ago at May 5 10:19 - There should be the extended possibility to edit the movie titles...
1. One primary field with the international english title (will be displayed in every view)
2. A button to add a national title (a new line with another field and a dropbox will be created)
4. The dropbox contains all possible languages
5. In your profile you could chose your secondary displayed language which will always be shown (in brackets) if it's available (in every view).
1. One primary field with the international english title (will be displayed in every view)
2. A button to add a national title (a new line with another field and a dropbox will be created)
4. The dropbox contains all possible languages
5. In your profile you could chose your secondary displayed language which will always be shown (in brackets) if it's available (in every view).
Deleted user
Deleted
17 years, 1 month ago at Mar 19 23:29 - OK was this ever sorted?
Ipanema's example seems just about the perfect solution. However, right now I think we ought to have just one set of rules (or maybe two kinds: one for Czech movies one for the rest) Since the movie titles are imported from IMDb so that the original "foreign" title appears only on the item page, and since that's the example most people seem to be following, i think that should be the general rule. It'd be too much of a hassle to go change all movie titles according to Prel's example. Although some people are following this example already.
Is there something being planned conserning movie titles in the near future?
Ipanema's example seems just about the perfect solution. However, right now I think we ought to have just one set of rules (or maybe two kinds: one for Czech movies one for the rest) Since the movie titles are imported from IMDb so that the original "foreign" title appears only on the item page, and since that's the example most people seem to be following, i think that should be the general rule. It'd be too much of a hassle to go change all movie titles according to Prel's example. Although some people are following this example already.
Is there something being planned conserning movie titles in the near future?
VIP Moderator Prelude
17 years, 1 month ago at Mar 20 1:09 - woah, this an old thread :)
So what do we make primary title? English, or the real title from its native language? because my Czech dad would be insulted to have to call 'Obchod na korze' by its well-known English title, 'Shop on Main Street'. So do we reverse what IMDB enters in? Make 'English title' the primary FOREIGN name, and make 'Title as released' which ONLY shows up on item page, make that one the English translation?
So what do we make primary title? English, or the real title from its native language? because my Czech dad would be insulted to have to call 'Obchod na korze' by its well-known English title, 'Shop on Main Street'. So do we reverse what IMDB enters in? Make 'English title' the primary FOREIGN name, and make 'Title as released' which ONLY shows up on item page, make that one the English translation?
VIP Moderator Prelude
17 years, 1 month ago at Mar 20 1:10 - revisiting my original suggestion, I was basically saying fuck the whole 'PRIMARY' and 'AS RELEASED' names, and have just one entry, with translated version in brackets. Then it shows up everywhere. sure, titles get long, but it makes it so much more useable in list or search mode.
Deleted user
Deleted
17 years, 1 month ago at Mar 20 1:54 - There really isn't anything wrong in the way you've been doing it. It's just that the majority of movie titles are already in the IMDB-dealt mode, and for a site like this it's good to have one clear set of rules, no? Or am i too strict? One good reason to keep these titles in separate datafields might be if Listal ever adopts a system which allows more titles, the we wouldn't have to back to change all these titles. Or maybe you could work it out so that they're in separate datafields but still both titles appear everywhere. I don't know how that would work out.
Right now: until (if ever) there's a system which allows different language titles or you to choose which title you see i say we go with the current system which IMDb deals us, simply because it'll keep the majority of Listal users happy. You couldn't have it the other way round because then Asian movies would start appearing on "my movies" and actor pages as "Cheun gwong tsa sit" and "Wong gok ka moon" etc. which would be completely unintelligable to non-Chinese speakers (maybe even to Chinese speakers), and isn't the way any non-Chinese speaker would ever refer to these movies. The English title is usually the most recognisable title around the world for any movie. And when it comes to our little Finnish movies, I like to think of the potential international audience as well. "Man Without a Past" vs. "Mies vailla menneisyyttä"?
But something like above example from Ipanema would definitely be the way to go. Oh yeah: and we so need searchable English AKAs as well.
Right now: until (if ever) there's a system which allows different language titles or you to choose which title you see i say we go with the current system which IMDb deals us, simply because it'll keep the majority of Listal users happy. You couldn't have it the other way round because then Asian movies would start appearing on "my movies" and actor pages as "Cheun gwong tsa sit" and "Wong gok ka moon" etc. which would be completely unintelligable to non-Chinese speakers (maybe even to Chinese speakers), and isn't the way any non-Chinese speaker would ever refer to these movies. The English title is usually the most recognisable title around the world for any movie. And when it comes to our little Finnish movies, I like to think of the potential international audience as well. "Man Without a Past" vs. "Mies vailla menneisyyttä"?
But something like above example from Ipanema would definitely be the way to go. Oh yeah: and we so need searchable English AKAs as well.
VIP Moderator Prelude
17 years, 1 month ago at Mar 20 2:10 - As far as i know, search does search thru English AKAs, and displays the foreign title in search results. try it.
Deleted user
Deleted
17 years, 1 month ago at Mar 20 2:24 - I mean more fields man more fields. A Hongkong actioner might have several prominent English titles, none of which might be the definitive international title. Like "Mr Canton & Lady Rose" vs "Canton Godfather" vs "Miracles" vs "Black Dragon" all for the same Jackie Chan film (Ji Ji). Every DVD seems to have a new title, which means people recognise it differently.
But yeah, search does search through original language titles, but results only display English title
But yeah, search does search through original language titles, but results only display English title
silent killer
17 years, 1 month ago at Mar 20 3:31 - So I was asking in another thread, and I was wondering if this naming scheme can be used for other media. I've got a huge list of manga and atleast some have a different name than what they have here. (here being North America)
Deleted user
Deleted
17 years, 1 month ago at Mar 20 12:51 - Aha, book items. So if I have a Finnish edition of "War and Peace" and the cover says "Sota ja rauha" what do I call the item at Listal?
Sota ja rauha (War and Peace)
Sota ja rauha (Voyna i mir)
War and Peace (Война и мир)
Война и мир (War and Peace)
Sota ja rauha
War and Peace
etc.
What are the rules? Are there any rules? I'm guessing there aren't.
anyway:
WE NEED MORE FIELDS FOR TITLES!
Sota ja rauha (War and Peace)
Sota ja rauha (Voyna i mir)
War and Peace (Война и мир)
Война и мир (War and Peace)
Sota ja rauha
War and Peace
etc.
What are the rules? Are there any rules? I'm guessing there aren't.
anyway:
WE NEED MORE FIELDS FOR TITLES!
Deleted user
Deleted
15 years, 1 month ago at Mar 29 14:12 - Talking about movies, I think the default title should be the original one (in latin alphabet), and the international title (english) should always be visibile, not only on the item page.
Moderator Admin
Tom
15 years, 1 month ago at Apr 1 23:54 - I will try and change that soon or make it an option, it is going to make some titles very long.
Deleted user
Deleted
15 years, 1 month ago at Apr 2 22:53 - I thought that too, but I think it is worths a try. Thank you for the response
insektmute
15 years, 1 month ago at Apr 3 9:53 - I think the only problem with doing that is the titles will be so long, you won't see the international title(s) in searches and lists anyway. Unless I'm confusing what you mean?
In any case, I'm for Ipanema's suggestion waaaay back at the start of all this. Ultra long titles and tons of brackets and things just seems like a kludgey stopgap measure for something that needs a more elegant solution. Particularly when you consider how many different titles there are, even within one language, something like a drop down box where you pick which one of the bunch that you want to display in your lists sounds like the most versatile and comprehensive way to take care of it for good.
Another idea, and I don't know if the site could even support this, but LibraryThing tackles this kind of thing in a very innovative way. You basically have the core listing for each item, which covers the info like the author, all the covers that have been used for different editions, etc. You add it to your library, but then have an editable area to specify info that's only applicable to your collection. So lets say you change the title to suit your language, the binding, UPC code, whatever. It updates it, lists it like so in your collection, but doesn't interfere with the main entry or anyone elses listings.
In any case, I'm for Ipanema's suggestion waaaay back at the start of all this. Ultra long titles and tons of brackets and things just seems like a kludgey stopgap measure for something that needs a more elegant solution. Particularly when you consider how many different titles there are, even within one language, something like a drop down box where you pick which one of the bunch that you want to display in your lists sounds like the most versatile and comprehensive way to take care of it for good.
Another idea, and I don't know if the site could even support this, but LibraryThing tackles this kind of thing in a very innovative way. You basically have the core listing for each item, which covers the info like the author, all the covers that have been used for different editions, etc. You add it to your library, but then have an editable area to specify info that's only applicable to your collection. So lets say you change the title to suit your language, the binding, UPC code, whatever. It updates it, lists it like so in your collection, but doesn't interfere with the main entry or anyone elses listings.
Deleted user
Deleted
15 years, 1 month ago at Apr 3 10:25 - [quote] I think the only problem with doing that is the titles will be so long, you won't see the international title(s) in searches and lists anyway. Unless I'm confusing what you mean?[/quote]
That was my point, my idea was that the international title would be always visible, not only on the movie page, but also in lists, browsing through libraries, through tags, etc.
Of course it's hard to organize, it could get very messy, but I think it is worth a try.
That was my point, my idea was that the international title would be always visible, not only on the movie page, but also in lists, browsing through libraries, through tags, etc.
Of course it's hard to organize, it could get very messy, but I think it is worth a try.
insektmute
15 years, 1 month ago at Apr 3 10:57 - I'd love to be able to see the international title in some cases, but you still run into the problem of too many variations for an item for it to realistically work.
Taking an example off a list I've been working on, the movie I know as Terrifying Girls High School: Lynch Law Classroom is also known as Kyôfu joshikôkô: bôkô rinchi kyôshitsu, 恐怖女子高校 暴行リンチ教室, and Les filles de Kamaré.
Squeezing things like that into a single line would be a disaster, I think, and it would make the site extremely difficult to use for a lot of us, myself included.
Taking an example off a list I've been working on, the movie I know as Terrifying Girls High School: Lynch Law Classroom is also known as Kyôfu joshikôkô: bôkô rinchi kyôshitsu, 恐怖女子高校 暴行リンチ教室, and Les filles de Kamaré.
Squeezing things like that into a single line would be a disaster, I think, and it would make the site extremely difficult to use for a lot of us, myself included.
Deleted user
Deleted
15 years, 1 month ago at Apr 3 13:55 - I know, it's a mess!
my suggestion would be:
- Default title (the original in latin alphabet): Kyôfu joshikôkô: bôkô rinchi kyôshitsu
- English title: Terrifying Girls High School: Lynch Law
They don't need to be on the same line, they could be organized on different fields, something like this:
Kyôfu joshikôkô: bôkô rinch [...]
Terrifying Girls High School: Lync [...]
Maybe there could be another field for the orignal title for different ideograms and alphabets, which would be visible exclusively on the item page.
my suggestion would be:
- Default title (the original in latin alphabet): Kyôfu joshikôkô: bôkô rinchi kyôshitsu
- English title: Terrifying Girls High School: Lynch Law
They don't need to be on the same line, they could be organized on different fields, something like this:
Kyôfu joshikôkô: bôkô rinch [...]
Terrifying Girls High School: Lync [...]
Maybe there could be another field for the orignal title for different ideograms and alphabets, which would be visible exclusively on the item page.
insektmute
15 years, 1 month ago at Apr 3 17:04 - That's a better solution than the current one, definitely. The trick would be having it appear with all the titles shown in every area, though. I remember what "Kyôfu joshikôkô" is right now, but most of the time, I would completely forget.
Moderator
Gauntlet
15 years, 1 month ago at Apr 4 4:12 - I just think there should be options for various languages and then an option for us to choose set our own primary title without it being global. For example, someone in the U.S can choose to see "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" and someone in the U.K. can choose to see "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone."