Reminder to newbies; Leve the MOVIE posters alone.

Last few days most of the Star Wars films keep getting their primary image changed back to the default DVD cover. First of all, please realize by changing the PRIMARY image, it affects EVERYONE, so be careful with it. Second, the general consensus on here is to have items in the MOVIES sections display one of its original MOVIE POSTERS. In some cases, there may be several teaser posters and different style movie posters. I don't really care which people choose to have as primary, although I try to stick to the most recognizable movie poster as primary. If you want your DVD cover, add the film in your DVD section. Leave the movie posters alone, please.

I don't mean to get all preachy on this, but I've spent a LOT of time trying to make this one the finest movie poster databases on the net, and I'm even adding tons of classic posters from 30s and 40s, so to see the top films keep reverting back to DVD gets rather annoying. The only time I don't mind a DVD cover is if there is no Movie Poster uploaded yet, or cannot be found anywhere online.

I agree, you've done an awesome job of adding the posters and it's a shame to have that work undone.

FYI, for new users at one point there was a discussion about what to use as the primary image in movies and many members wanted to have the movie posters, so when you change the images you may be upsetting quite a few folks.

kez125 - pot kettle

I have been thinking about adding a feature where you where certain people will be able to lock the primary image and it cannot be changed.

Ah, good, now it's even more elliptical...

Sounds like a good idea to me, I haven't done as many images as Prelude, but I've done my fair share and I've tripped over this once or twice myself. I just put it back to what I think it should be, but then, that's kinda the problem isn't it?

I had thought that the voting system for the images could help with this, the picture with the most votes could be locked as the primary image.

chuckmuck, voting = bad. i believe flixster does it like this for their actor images, and for most of the actresses, the picture with the most votes is the one showing most cleavage and skimpiest outfits, so that becomes primary image.

The # of wankers on any given site outnumber the # of decent people. so democracy shouldn't be allowed on websites. ;)

Maybe instead of making certain people 'mods', make it on points system. You need 'x' amount of points before being able to set 'primary' image (unless you upload a picture that only has default image, in which case as it stands, it gets automatically bumped as primary image). And also you need 'x' amount of points to 'edit description', as well as in future 'edit cast'. Let members prove their worth by uploading images and videos and posting reviews, and after they earned their points, they unlock the more advanced edit features.

And as a bonus, when people ask 'What are points for?' like they always do, we now have an answer for them.

and if you sit down and think about it, all we need right now is a few bad apples to really hurt the site real fast. someone can make a # of bogus accounts, and start posting spam in forums and message to users (this has already started), but they could take it to next level and add spam images to top movies, or edit description with spam messages, etc. heck, even add infomercial spam videos. As it stands, anyone can add anything, and certain things (videos, images, messages, forum posts) can't be flagged and deleted quickly.

I think we're lucky as MOST of our members are respectable users, and even ones setting DVD cover or adding 'Where are missing actors?' to movie descriptions are doing this either thinking they're helping the site or don't know where to properly voice their concerns, not out of malice. But we just need a few bad seeds and the site can turn into a fiasco.

I think by implementing either moderators or unlocking accounts based on # of points, it will be a big step in protecting this site's content, and having 'report' buttons on reviews, images, videos and posts will keep the rest of the site respectable as well.

Maybe just who ever has the most points can override? If you have less points than the person who set the image you cannot change it.

Tom, that wouldn't help. I've had cases where I've uploaded Movie Posters of lesser quality, because that's all I could find, and then Manling or Coyote followed it up a few weeks later with some nice high quality posters. If they couldn't set those at primary because I already set another image as primary, that sort of gives the guy with most points (currently, me) almost dictatorship status.

I think a system that works when someone passes # amount of points, then they get elevated privileges, such as primary image change, edit description, edit cast list, etc.

Or forget about points and assign a certain # of moderators for this task as well as moderating the forums. Ask the top 20 users on here who they'd nominate for moderator, and if a user gets at least 3 votes, they get asked if they want to be a moderator. And future moderators then need approval from existing moderators.

Good points Prelude and I agree with having mods in the area being the only ones to change the primary images & info the most active/helpful members in each area(movies, books, games, music, forum) being voted for and willing would be good.

How many mods would each area have? Some areas will be more active than others and need more than one mod, I also think having more than one mod per area helps balance the responsibility and eventual conflicts out as they could work together.

Or forget about points and assign a certain # of moderators for this task as well as moderating the forums. Ask the top 20 users on here who they'd nominate for moderator, and if a user gets at least 3 votes, they get asked if they want to be a moderator.

If this was to become the case, then I think it should be the "top 20 members who actually have collections" (if you're wondering why, go have a look for yourself), and that each should have more than one vote just incase only 2-3 actually get enough votes. ;) Plus the people would actually have to be asked if they would be willing to take on a responsibility like that since some people might just want to be left alone to sort their collections, rather than having to solve problems and be asked questions all the time.

Someone had to point out the negatives. :P

I think that only people with a certain amount of points should be able to change the picture. If there is someone that does have the points, and is messing with it, then Tom will just deal with that guy.

I really think all the VIPs or people with the top ten most points should be made mods. It would help alot.

I think it should be the most popular, or the first, or whatever. Like on "Renegade", I switched it to a pic I uploaded because I had never even seen the other one. I might be wrong though.

www.listal.com/viewimages/games/888

I'm not too picky 'which' movie poster gets listed at primary. Take this film, for example. www.listal.com/viewimages/movies/22472

All 3 movie posters are great. I don't really care which of the 3 get used, and it may be nice to cycle them once a while for a fresh look, but the default amazon dvd image is just too tacky. I'm not a fan of DVD covers, they usually just copy/paste all the different movie posters and plaster then on the DVD cover for maximum star exposure, or add 'floating heads' of all famous stars across original movie poster background. Plus with DVD default images, you get some images that have a rounded plastic border, some whose images are angled, some that have DVDs sticking out of them, and most have annoying large banners that say 'Widescreen' or 'MGM' or other such stuff. That's why the original movie posters look so much sweeter in our collections.

True, true.

Tom, now is really the time for mods. Or even just one. May I suggest Prelude?

How about these things costing points; adding gives points (current set up more or less), changing costs points. Not perfect obviously, but at least a person would be limited by how much they contribute to the site.

I dunno, man......sounds kinda harsh....

Plus, changing is sometimes contributing....

I don't like the idea of costing points, then people who don't do anything towards keeping the posters tidy would be on top.

As for DVD covers, I actually like seeing them in the additional images, but not as the main picture if it can be helped. I like to see a more complete range of the artwork for the product that only adding DVD covers can do.

I don't think that points should affect the ability to change a picture. We're wanting a site that everyone can use freely and fairly, so heirarchy would leave those users out who may not rate/tag items, but instead have huge collections. Think about films that only have one or two people that have watched it, what if a "low ranking" member wants to change the picture to something much better? Should they be excluded because they don't have enough points?

Also, on the point of making VIP members mods, that would not be fair as it would be people buying into being a moderator. Plus, would they all really want that? I doubt that all of the VIPs even come onto the Groups. And just because someone has a lot of points doesn't mean they are reliable.

If moderators were to be introduced I think that Tom should be the one to make the decision based on who he thinks is suitable and trustworthy enough not to abuse power.

costing points? NO way----I know I have worked darn hard to gain the points I currently have. I wouldn't want to lose points for something so trivial as changing pictures.

Moderators? could be beneficial, but not just VIPs....the top number (top 20) would be an interesting option to start with...but I think the factors should be more like, top people with collections, have contributed actual reviews (not just "funny movie" crap), pictures, etc.

I just wouldn't want to see a group, however large or small, of moderators who start to power-trip because they have a certain status and ability to change things. Being a moderator is a HUGE responsibility that can bring a lot of work.

I know, because I moderate groups elsewhere.

some people have a lot of points (and thus, a high rank) only because they point useless reviews like "funny movie" and nothing substantial.

Also, the ranks are constantly changing (though not updated often---for instance, I still show as being rank: 55, but am actually now in the top 20 if you look at the list of members), so I think any system is not going to be viewed as completely "fair" when it comes to selecting a few moderators.

But there's a line between 'completely free and open system' and where we need to get, with more moderator and elevated privileges for certain users. Look at what's happening with Wikipedia, with so many frequent abuses and having to lock down threads and police people. You can't assume nobody on this site is a prick and everyone here only wants to help the site. Just today, I had to fix the description of 'Der Untergang). I know 100% I edited the description with an overview of the plot. It was all wiped clean, and both the english and german titles were erased. only thing left was a dash (i guess system needs 'something' or it won't allow the update). So basically someone hates that particular film, so they chose to vandalize the description and wipe clean the titles just to make it impossible to find.

It's just a ticking time bomb right now. Changing movie poster to DVD covers, though an annoyance, is really not the issue. Wait til some wankers start uploading an image that says 'this movie is gay' and setting it as primary image, then the craziness will need to be urgently addressed. I say plan ahead, and certain things such as 'Edit Description' and 'Set Primary Image' need to be locked down to key users/moderators. Its not taking away from new users; they can upload all images they want, and post reviews and tag all their films, but key things that affect EVERYONE ELSE's collection such as the two above mentioned tasks need to be kept out of hands of wankers. And if you give key people privileges to help moderate the site, you can unlock a bunch more options for them, such as move and item from movies to tv and vice versa, group up/correct multiple musicians and artists that are the same, add missing Director names, correct cast list (MAJOR need for this), etc. I can think of a dozen or so people that would love to do this and excel at making this site top notch, and it would also give Tom much needed break from the tedious maintenance of moving tv shows, adding missing directors, and being a one-man sheriff to keep the site clean.

I think the following users would be great at this:
myself, coyoteblue, Manling, Ipanema, tartan_skirt, ropedancer, jasoncarulli, jay-jay, draco, catcarlo and a few others.

I nominate these guys because their names appear most often when filling in missing images and actors as well as very vocal in putting forth great suggestions on the forums.

uh-huh, and what about those of us who have been starting to work hard to fill in images and descriptions?

meant to add----do you see how quickly this could become problematic?

I personally contribute very little to the threads here in the groups section because so many are cluttered up with garbage.

I prefer to work on adding pictures and reviews with actual content to them----and have spent quite a lot of time on this site in just the past two weeks moving from a rank of 750 to the current place of 9 (yes, I know it says 55, but I am WAY past that).

I think any moderator has to be responsible, has to be able to communicate in an understandable manner---not to mention professionally, and not be given too much power until they can prove themselves. I also think any moderator should, until they prove themselves, have the warning that any abuse of power would result in the termination of that status.

I have seen too many moderators act like complete jerks just because they thought they could because they were somehow superior to the rest of the people in the group/community, etc.

I don't even know half of the names listed by Prelude76 above....the other half might be worth considering....but I think there should also be a set amount of time you would be willing to put into the moderating job daily or weekly----if you can't do that, then don't ask for the job.

Moderating takes a LOT of work, patience, and responsibility, and some people are just not able to handle that.

Again---I know...I have booted more than a few moderators off of my own sites for various abuses of power/problems, etc.

Well, Jessica, if a movie/item doesnt have any image, and you upload it, it automatically becomes primary image, so new people that are 'filling in the gaps' could still do so and they would affect primary image. But perhaps lock out changing primary image (except by mods/regulators) after an item no longer has a no image or just default amazon image?

And maybe same goes for 'Edit description'. If there is nothing there, you can add one. But once there is one, to edit/delete/re-post a new description, that could only be done by users with elevated privileges.

That would keeps abuses in check, yet still allow new users to quickly and easily fill in the blanks.

Would largely agree with Prelude's last post, although would like to see some kind of system like Musicbrainz's to allow anyone to make changes IF they're voted through. It works fairly well on there since most votes are made by trusted users anyway, and a single negative vote changes how many positive ones are required for the change to be made.

"#

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If 3 people unanimously vote for or against a suggested change, the change is immmediately accepted or rejected, respectively. If the votes are not unanimous the system will wait for 1 week and then accept the suggested change into the database if the simple majority of editors voted yes. If the vote fails to achieve a simple majority it is dropped from the moderation table without being applied to the database. Some edits, such as the add release edits, will add data into the database at the time the edit is entered into the system. If such edits get voted down, the data that was entered for the edit will be removed from the database."

They've also got a system whereby "high quality" items require a larger number of votes for a change to go through - so if something's been well done up and gets a lot of traffic, it can be flagged to avoid bad changes escaping the attention of the more trusted users.

Hmm... that cut and paste didn't quite work :)

"If 3 people unanimously vote for or against a suggested change, the change is immmediately accepted or rejected, respectively. If the votes are not unanimous the system will wait for 1 week and then accept the suggested change into the database if the simple majority of editors voted yes. If the vote fails to achieve a simple majority it is dropped from the moderation table without being applied to the database. Some edits, such as the add release edits, will add data into the database at the time the edit is entered into the system. If such edits get voted down, the data that was entered for the edit will be removed from the database."

I agree with that---as my response would have been that, with Prelude's suggestion (which is a good one, but needs some guidelines), you might run the risk of moderators then deciding that they don't like a certain picture chosen and changing it, and then no one else can do anything about it (I have seen some terrible pictures posted for actors, for example, but didn't want to be rude and change the primary image set by someone else).

Sorry if that doesn't make much sense----I had to fast overnight and then have lots of blood taken (which makes me woozy WITH food in my stomach), so I am not quite all here right now:)

p.s. I am not knocking suggestions---just trying to point out potential drawbacks (hopefully that is coming through).

Nothing much at the moment. Just that nice warm fuzzy feeling you get.

just reviving this thread to remind people - please leave movie posters alone. By changing 'primary' you affect everyone else too. Keep DVD covers in DVD section as primary, and Movie Posters as primary in MOVIES section. Simple as pie. If a movie has several different Movie Posters, feel free to switch them up once a while - variety is nice. but no DVD covers. :P

bump

Haha.

Seriously though, it's not funny.

there's exeptions sometimes, when a movie poster is such bad quality, that perhaps DVD is better for now. But a few times posters such as Star Wars series or some James Bond films get switch back, and its not a big deal (i just switch them back to Movie poster) but just keeping the thread alive to mention this to new users (yeah right, with naruto floods galore, the Groups are getting more and more avoided by everyone over the age of 15)

*non-naruto bump*

fillers are ok. I've used them in past for Bourne Ultimatum and Resident Evil: Extinction - Posted image of main star, perhaps from the movie shoot itself, way before a real poster was available.

Drako is the resident 'new poster' uploader, he seem to get all the new releases covered. not sure how he does it, but big thanks goes out to him. But before posters are even made, I think having filler images are better than a blank spot.

case in point, Indiana Jones 4:

www.listal.com/viewimages/movies/40304

edit: actually, Indy 4 poster just got released. Thanks, Voxy! but for longest time, it was a picture of Indiana Jones. and since Tom himself uploaded it, I think it shows a 100% green light for 'filler images'.

yes, each area needs its own slighty different rules, i suppose