I really have no clue what is allowed?

Dear Mods,

thanks for the kind warning not to post pics that show nudity and so on.
I have read and understood your rules, but if the 10! pics which you deleted right now from my list are against the rules, then come and delete the whole list. I'm now absolutly unsure what I can post and what not, because every mod understands the rules like he wants.

You also say "It is against the rules of this site to post images of pornstars and adult models that have tags to sexually explicit sites." Then please delete all profiles of all pornstars and of all girls with tags to adult sites, so that I cannot run into trouble losing my account. I don't see any tags to adult sites e.g. of Laura Michelle Prestin (www.listal.com/laura-michelle-prestin) but you deleted her pictures on my list - there was no sexual posing and she's a fitness modell and no pornstar.

Thanks

@Anautix
Assuming that the 10 deleted pics (which I can't see) were more sexually explicit, my question would be: did *you* set the NSFW flag for that list?

I think there might be a misunderstanding about what is meant by TAG.
When there's the name or the adress of a website directly on the picture, it's called a tag. For example, this picture is tagged.
The adress of a site is visible at the bottom of the picture. Tags like these are frowned upon but allowed as long as they're discreet and no alternative is available.
When the tag is a reference to an adult website, it doesn't matter if the tag is discreet or the picture is absolutely innocent, it gets deleted. There's no way around it. Because this is a website for all-ages and we don't want minors finding porn sites through listal.

Oh gee, deleting lists and profiles? Why didn't WE think of that?

Oh wait, we did.

If it was in our power to deal with that crap, it would have already been done. But mods have a VERY limited amount of things we can do to help. Deleting lists and editing/deleting profiles is not among those things.

Laura Michelle Prestin looks pretty trashy, and there are plenty of sexual type poses in that gallery. I'm not surprised some got deleted.

Overall if you want us to be doing more, that's a conversation you need to have with Tom.

Maggie you might find Michelle Prestin trashy but that's a very female point of view.

Thank you compcua for clarifying what "Tags" on pictures are. I didn't know it.

Did you delete this picture only because of the adress? Is this picture allowed when I remove that adress?

Can you still see the deleted pics, like me? If so please tell me the reason why was this picture deleted: www.listal.com/viewimage/5846452 ?

What about this picture: www.listal.com/viewimage/5872931. Can I reupload it w/o the internet adress?

And what is wrong with that?: www.listal.com/viewimage/5873003


I could get the impression that listal wants to become a place only for children and women. But that makes no sense to me. Why is there a "mature content" setting for lists (yes 'The O.P.' I did mark my list with the sexy pics as mature), if you don't tolerate mature content at all?

Edit:
What about the Playboy sign? Is it also not allowed on pictures?

1. Not sure if you knew this, but there are a lot of females on this site. So our opinion kind of counts.

2. I personally wouldn't delete because of that address, even though there is nudity on the site, because it's a fansite and not a full on adult/porn site or a site for a porn star with nudity all over.

3. The purple lingerie picture was probably deleted because the bra is see-through.

4. If you cropped out the address, then personally I'd probably leave it alone.

5. Probably the tag in the upper left corner.

6. We usually leave the Playboy signs alone unless there is actual nudity in the picture.



We are not a "place only for children and women." There are plenty of guys out there who want us to keep the gross shit off too. The fact is that the site does not allow adult content and most adult models fall into that. Not every adult model is a porn star. I fully consider the Preston chick to be an adult model because of the mood of the gallery and the types of pics in there. And I'm not the only one, since another mod already set that profile to adult.

If you want to fanboy over women who objectify themselves as sex objects and pose in positions clearly just meant to give guys hard-ons, then this is the wrong site for you. Half the internet is dedicated to porn and porn stars and adult models, so there's nothing wrong with keeping that shit off of this site because there are plenty of other places you can go.

So cut the sexism shit and find somewhere else to post those kinds of pictures.

Prodigal Son, thank you. That's exactly what I would have said too.

Anautix: Trust us, we wish we could delete all the lists that have disgusting porn pics on them. We would delete all the galleries that are full of them if that were an option. We do not have the ability to do that.

How about you don't post questionable images. If in doubt, don't post it. There can't be any nudity, no tags to adult or explicit sites, no sexual poses. Coming into the forums and being a jerk is not going to help you keep your account. We only do what we can with the resources we're given.

If there is no tag in the image than it most likely will not be deleted. However it's up to the individual mod whether or not to delete it. If we feel that there is too much nudity or the picture is sexually explicit then it will be deleted. You think that we have different opinions but we're mostly on the same page when it comes to these things. Users who generally post PG images will probably not have their images deleted if there is no definitive nudity. If you post stuff that is against the rules you will probably see that some of your borderline images may also be deleted for our inconvenience.

@Anautix
The fact of the matter is that those kinds of lists are not welcome by Listal's Moderation, not just because of the odd partial nudity or of a web address on some images, but because of the general look and feel, that is to say the perceived objectifying intent and (lack of) taste in such galleries.
It's not just a women's thing. As a male, and a simple user, I agree with what Maggie and others said. There's already plenty of scantily dressed babes in sexual poses elsewhere on the Internet, so I don't see the need of having all them on Listal too.

But still the majority of pictures on listal show women posing infront of a camera. Listal w/o these pics would be quite empty. I'm not the one who is here for porn pics, look at my lists. You have a category called "beauty", I don't think that the beauty of a person excludes pictures of its body.

Maggie, do I understand you right, that you give me the permission to reupload that pic of Laura Prestin without the tag?:
www.missprestin.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/IMG_1502_600x900_Q10.jpg

That would be nice, because that pic is very aesthetic for me, and far from trashy.

By the way concerning: "3. The purple lingerie picture was probably deleted because the bra is see-through.". I have looked at it very closely and it's not see-through. It's just a lingerie pic, like the ones you also have on your lists.

The problem is that I can't be sure not to brake any rules, because as you confirmed every mod interprets for himself what is allowed and what not. Even some of you Mods have pics on your lists that are also against the rules (if you wish I can give examples)...

The big problem is the lack of objectivity in the mods decision. That makes it so difficult for uploaders. Posting no pictures of women is no solution.

Uhm, no. I'm not giving you permission for that pic. We have very different ideas of trashy, because to me, that pic with that bikini and whatnot is all kinds of trashy. If another mod or Tom wants to say otherwise, then fine, but I myself am not condoning that picture.

And the bra is very see-through, so I suggest you get your vision checked.

Overall, taste is everything. If something is tasteful, or more artsy, we're more likely to allow less clothing so long as all the important parts are still covered. We do not consider adult models to be tasteful, so we delete more from them. Yes, there is a double standard. We judge more harshly for adult model pictures because we don't want that stuff here. And as I mentioned, adult models aren't only porn stars. We consider "glamor" models to be adult.

As Prodigal Son mentioned, we've had these debates over and over again. And I can guarantee anything you think breaks the rules on us mods' lists probably doesn't. That's not because I think we're perfect and don't make mistakes, but because everyone who bitches about this sort of stuff seems to be oblivious to the fact that there is a difference between tasteful and non-tasteful lingerie pictures. And I suggest not wasting your time trying to throw VS pictures or any other commercial lingerie pictures at us, which tends to be the next idiotic step people try taking, because it never works.

Though we have a few differences of opinions amongst ourselves and do sometimes call each other out if we think a picture is crossing the line, the average moderator does not go around blatantly breaking the rules for all to see. None of the moderators I know/talk to makes lists with tons of image-breaking rules.

"Posting no pictures of women is no solution." This sounds like a perfect solution to me when it concerns adult models, because we're totally fine with keeping them off the site. But if you want to go post tasteful pictures of people with legit careers not solely revolving around turning dudes on, then feel free.

Sorry if I bother you with this topic, but I'm here since some months not years.
I think you will have to debate it also in the future with other new members.

I still don't see the purpose of the "mature content" setting for lists. What is the practical value of that option?

A far as I know handbras or breasts only covered by an arm or hairs is against the rules. I've seen such pics on one of your lists. But ok, you are a mod and have the right to dictate what is tasteful and what is allowed even if it's against the official rules. Now I totally understand the politics of this site and won't wonder about future sensless decisions anymore. Thanks.

@Anautix
The difference is that lingerie fashion pics generally focus on--guess what?--lingerie, not on the "hey! look at my exciting body bits" as such.
Same goes for the artsy photos and for mainstream film posters: even when they show some skin, they serve a purpose, as opposed to the unwarranted galleries of babes.

As to the NSFW list setting, my understanding is it's for mature content that has a rightful reason to exist on the site, but does not allow sleazy pics anyway.

If it's an image that just has the Playboy bunny icon on it, I won't delete it unless the image is sexually explicit or contains actually nudity. However if it has a .com on it, then I will delete the image.

A far as I know handbras or breasts only covered by an arm or hairs is against the rules.

No, they're not. Unless the image is sexual or sexually explicit in nature, we're fine with topless images so long as the breasts are covered. But this is one of those double standard things. Some mods might not allow handbras and such for adult models, depending on the picture. But for actual models and celebs and all them, we allow it so long as it's tasteful. And yes, we get to define what tasteful means. No, this doesn't mean we get to break rules to do it. But handbras and arms covering breasts are NOT against official rules.

As The O.P. mentioned, there is some mature content that is allowed. Sometimes themes in lists can be mature but not to the point where we have to ban it, like themes you might find in movies. But lately that NSFW setting has been the mods' only tool to try and keep some lists from reaching the entire site. Usually when we delete pictures, the deleted pictures don't get taken off lists they were on, so we make sure those lists are set to mature. And so on.

Usually when we delete pictures, the deleted pictures don't get taken off lists they were on, so we make sure those lists are set to mature. And so on.

This confuses me. My deleted pics where all on lists witch were set on mature by myself. And they were all taken off the list, they disappeared completely. I don't understand your sentence.

The thing with the handbras I read some time ago here in the forum (or was it a list about the rules?) and either a mod or Tom himself told that story, maybe I find that post again. You should write the rules a little bit more precisely and find a solution to avoid these "double standards". That makes things very unpredictable.

Personally, I had discussd this matter a couple of times with the moderators and, even though at first I thought that it was unfair, I learned to accept this system and play along with it.

1. The moderators are only human. Of course, their decisions are based on their own opinion.

2. A while back, there was a real war against porn/nude/babes material and you couldn't even let your children watch this website. The mods cleaned up this mess and they are indeed tough-as-nail to make sure it doesn't happen again.

3. Last but not least, that's how listal work and if you don't like it, well, you can go somewhere else. Enough people have dropped already because of those rules, you won't be the first. Personally, I'm 100% behind the moderators, they have all my respect for the time and energy they spent making sure we have a clean website.

I don't intent to leave as my main interests are not nude pictures. My primary interests are movies, actors & actresses, history, culture, nature and so on. But every time one of my (few) pics with partly naked women got deleted and I don't see a reason for that, then it lowers my motivation plus receiving a warning from the mods that your account is getting in danger. If someone would post real porn stuff or big amounts of nude pictures then a warning would be more reasonable...

This confuses me. My deleted pics where all on lists witch were set on mature by myself. And they were all taken off the list, they disappeared completely. I don't understand your sentence.

That's why I said "usually." Sometimes it works, but not always. A lot of times when we delete pictures, they remain on the lists. And I was not saying that it applied to your lists; I was just answering the question about why we have the NSFW tag.

The thing with the handbras I read some time ago here in the forum (or was it a list about the rules?) and either a mod or Tom himself told that story, maybe I find that post again. You should write the rules a little bit more precisely and find a solution to avoid these "double standards". That makes things very unpredictable.

Tom is the one who said in the mod forum some time ago that hand bras are allowed. That is the information I go by.

If you want clearer rules, take it up with Tom. Mods do not have the power to change them.

The double standard is not going to change. Sometimes we allow things with legit models that we will not allow with adult models. That's how it's going to be because not all issues are black and white like you want them to be.

Thank you, johanlefourbe, for the input and support.


This topic is beginning to go in circles, and it's getting exhausting. And it's clear that some people are never going to understand the reasons moderators delete things because they refuse to see differences amongst types of images. All of these things have been covered before, and though you may be new to it, the mods are getting sick of having to repeat themselves. I'm also extremely sick of people looking at what moderators do and post and assuming we are breaking rules, instead of using what we do as an example and learning from us. I do not understand why people always think we are blatantly ignoring and breaking rules, because we're not. We do make occasional mistakes but we're also pretty good at calling each other on it when we do.

The fact of the matter is that we are the ones who are chosen to interpret the rules and apply them when we do our mod work, so it what we say that goes. We are also heavily reliant on the reports that users file, because we simply do not have the amount of people needed to cover every area of the site. And we do not have the power to do much of what people think we are supposed to be doing. That is not our fault, because Tom has not given us free reign to make changes all over the site. We cannot edit profiles or delete lists or change anything on the lists other than the "mature/not mature" feature. We have asked Tom repeatedly to give us more powers and so far it has not happened.

We are the ones in power, and as I said, what we say goes (unless Tom intervenes to say otherwise). We get to decide what is okay or not okay, and yes, sometimes we have different opinions amongst each other, but since we are not just a bunch of clones with all the same thoughts and opinions, that is kind of how it goes. But having this power and being able to make these calls does not make us villains. We are not bad guys and we are not trying to make life miserable for people when we do our jobs. We just want this site to be friendly to all ages, and in order to do that, there are certain types of content and certain types of people we have to crack down on as much as we can. If you are into glamor models or Playboy models or whatever and want to post pictures of them, then fine -- but you don't need to post those pictures HERE. Listal does not have to cater to every single interest people have. And that type of content does not belong here. If you want to be here for films, music, etc then that's okay, but you do not have to be here for EVERY thing that you like. You can find another site to post adult content to.

I'm going to lock this thread now, because I'm absolutely done with people coming into the forums just to bash the system and mods when they were clearly ignorant of it and the rules. If you have any further questions, you can private message a moderator.