Loginmost essential element of rock n' roll.
johnny obelisk
15 years, 9 months ago at Aug 8 20:10 - what makes rock 'n roll, well, rock? is it loud guitars? or are particular instruments even important? what do you think?
johnny obelisk
15 years, 9 months ago at Aug 8 21:30 - okay, i'll start...
rebellion is the most essential element of rock & roll. more than technique or ability, the idea that you are, in some way, rocking (pun intended) the boat is more important. sometime this is done by playing an instrument in a manner that might be unconventional. or through lyrics that might push limits (or buttons). or through sheer presence. i feel this way when i see jello biafra perform or hear an album like bjork's medulla. i mean, just as much as watching hendrix perform at the mont. pop. fest. or the reaction to the beetles when they first came to america. i realize that might definition might even bring some electronic acts under the rock & roll umbrella. but sobeit.
rebellion is the most essential element of rock & roll. more than technique or ability, the idea that you are, in some way, rocking (pun intended) the boat is more important. sometime this is done by playing an instrument in a manner that might be unconventional. or through lyrics that might push limits (or buttons). or through sheer presence. i feel this way when i see jello biafra perform or hear an album like bjork's medulla. i mean, just as much as watching hendrix perform at the mont. pop. fest. or the reaction to the beetles when they first came to america. i realize that might definition might even bring some electronic acts under the rock & roll umbrella. but sobeit.
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15 years, 9 months ago at Aug 9 0:57 - The thing that pushes people into a frenzy during a Rock song, is the moment where the guitars feel so intense you just get overwhelmed with the power being released. An intricate solo and a few garish screams from the guitar and everyone is doing the air guitar along to the song.
Rebellion is more of a Punk theme than a Rock theme. Rock to me is more of a singing about how it is, telling a tale. Rock takes more thought than just Raging against the machine, or bringing down the establishment. It is poetic in a chaotic kind of way.
Rebellion is more of a Punk theme than a Rock theme. Rock to me is more of a singing about how it is, telling a tale. Rock takes more thought than just Raging against the machine, or bringing down the establishment. It is poetic in a chaotic kind of way.
johnny obelisk
15 years, 9 months ago at Aug 9 1:36 - Sure, i understand your point of view, but i think you see rock & roll in terms of style. not a problem. i think most people think of rock & roll as a style, although it might include several sub-genres. You're thinking in terms of rock vs. punk vs. electronica etc... i'm suggesting that rock & roll is successful only to the degree that is pushes the boundaries of convention. by my definition rock & roll is the antithesis of pop music (not that there is anything wrong with a good pop record) rock & roll might be a bit less accessible to the general population, intellectually speaking. But pop music feeds on the many of the ideas rock & roll (which is more experimental by nature) explored first.
example: the earliest punk rock is concerned with the idea that "I have something to say" and even though i might not be a great musician, i'm gonna use what i have to express myself. the band Suicide, for god's sake came outta the punk movement. Sum41 is no Suicide. this might be a drastic example, but consider that both bands are "punk" in some form. both are concerned with expression over musicianship, but what makes Sum41 or any of the Pop Punk bands sound so accessible? it's kinda like connect the dots. Sum 41, or i dunno, Blink 182... they can connect the dots and make a listen-able record, but bands like Suicide, or even early metallica... these bands (even if for a brief moment in their careers) CREATED the dots. i didnt mean to use so many punk examples. i've put a lot of thought into this idea and it can be applied to any genre. and i say all this not to discredit your definition of rock, only to offer an alternative. i dunno, what do you think?
example: the earliest punk rock is concerned with the idea that "I have something to say" and even though i might not be a great musician, i'm gonna use what i have to express myself. the band Suicide, for god's sake came outta the punk movement. Sum41 is no Suicide. this might be a drastic example, but consider that both bands are "punk" in some form. both are concerned with expression over musicianship, but what makes Sum41 or any of the Pop Punk bands sound so accessible? it's kinda like connect the dots. Sum 41, or i dunno, Blink 182... they can connect the dots and make a listen-able record, but bands like Suicide, or even early metallica... these bands (even if for a brief moment in their careers) CREATED the dots. i didnt mean to use so many punk examples. i've put a lot of thought into this idea and it can be applied to any genre. and i say all this not to discredit your definition of rock, only to offer an alternative. i dunno, what do you think?
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15 years, 9 months ago at Aug 9 1:58 - As you say (and I agreed with in my definition "poetic in a chaotic kind of way) Rock is most definitely "pushing the boundaries" but that is different from "Rebelling against the establishment"
Rock explores the area, pushing outwards trying to go as far as possible, sometimes too far, but generally within the confines of acceptable (although sometimes outrageous) behavior. Yes you get nutters, and once you get towards Hard Rock you are beginning to see extremes. But Punk is by default about anarchy and lashing out at society. Rock is singing about life I feel. Most of the rock bands I listen to sing about things I can relate to, much in the way Pop music tends to, but as you say, Pop tends to take the ingredients that work within music and manufactures something wholesome out of it which ticks all the right boxes. Rock on the other hand combines ingredients and tries to do different things with them to create a decent sound.
Punk is a movement too of course, which now days is kind of dead really. People try to say it isn't or it is coming back etc. But how can it? All the things Punks raged against have either gone, or been accepted. Now days "Punks" are just waring the clothes, having the hair etc, and listening to "Punk" music. I can't say I have seen many get involved in politics and righting the worlds wrongs in my (recent) life time.
Saying that though, Rock has kind of stagnated in most places. There are not many bands now willing to explore the boundaries, there tends to be an "accepted" way to do things, with one or two tweaks added for good measure. It is not often a band comes along that makes you think "Holy Shit!!"
Personality is probably the most essential element of any genre...
Rock explores the area, pushing outwards trying to go as far as possible, sometimes too far, but generally within the confines of acceptable (although sometimes outrageous) behavior. Yes you get nutters, and once you get towards Hard Rock you are beginning to see extremes. But Punk is by default about anarchy and lashing out at society. Rock is singing about life I feel. Most of the rock bands I listen to sing about things I can relate to, much in the way Pop music tends to, but as you say, Pop tends to take the ingredients that work within music and manufactures something wholesome out of it which ticks all the right boxes. Rock on the other hand combines ingredients and tries to do different things with them to create a decent sound.
Punk is a movement too of course, which now days is kind of dead really. People try to say it isn't or it is coming back etc. But how can it? All the things Punks raged against have either gone, or been accepted. Now days "Punks" are just waring the clothes, having the hair etc, and listening to "Punk" music. I can't say I have seen many get involved in politics and righting the worlds wrongs in my (recent) life time.
Saying that though, Rock has kind of stagnated in most places. There are not many bands now willing to explore the boundaries, there tends to be an "accepted" way to do things, with one or two tweaks added for good measure. It is not often a band comes along that makes you think "Holy Shit!!"
Personality is probably the most essential element of any genre...
johnny obelisk
15 years, 9 months ago at Aug 9 2:21 - i may not completely understand what you mean by "rebelling against the establishment." what is "the establishment" to you? because i don't see a difference between that and pushing a boundary. i mean, unless you have something else in mind. and i'm not sure what you mean by "going as far as possible...but within the confines of acceptable [yet] outrageous behavior."
there is definitely more to punk than "anarchy and lashing out at society." some early and undeniably punk bands had no political concerns at all; the Ramones for example. the spirit of true punk rock can still be found, sometimes in unlikely places... sometimes its behind turntables or weird synths, sometimes its behind an acoustic guitar.
i think what you say about rock stagnating is a very good point. not many bands are willing to explore the boundaries (or break with convention as i have put it). manson does right to question whether or not "rock is dead." i might agree to some extent. to ask why would be a question for another thread altogether.
there is definitely more to punk than "anarchy and lashing out at society." some early and undeniably punk bands had no political concerns at all; the Ramones for example. the spirit of true punk rock can still be found, sometimes in unlikely places... sometimes its behind turntables or weird synths, sometimes its behind an acoustic guitar.
i think what you say about rock stagnating is a very good point. not many bands are willing to explore the boundaries (or break with convention as i have put it). manson does right to question whether or not "rock is dead." i might agree to some extent. to ask why would be a question for another thread altogether.
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15 years, 9 months ago at Aug 9 2:27 - Well what I mean is Rock bands never tend to do something completely unacceptable, they tend to just live on the edge of reason, and drag society into new areas of acceptable behavior and normality. Without ever bringing society down, or attempting to.
Punk refuses to conform and demands to be different, it hates authority and wants to overthrow society, becoming "free" to do whatever the hell you want etc. A punk would never accept rules, or orders etc. They would look for any opportunity to over throw them.
Punk refuses to conform and demands to be different, it hates authority and wants to overthrow society, becoming "free" to do whatever the hell you want etc. A punk would never accept rules, or orders etc. They would look for any opportunity to over throw them.
johnny obelisk
15 years, 9 months ago at Aug 9 2:41 - okay, we may have to agree to disagree when it comes to punk aesthetic. however, i can agree somewhat with your comment on rock. it is true that even the most bizarre, obscene, or offensive music will have a following. its kinda like, if you build it, they will come. even by today's standards G.G. Allen would not be considered, by any stretch of the imagination, conventional. yet, people came to his shows to see if he was gonna shoot up, smear his own crap all over himself, or commit suicide on stage. the art needn't be completely unacceptable to break with convention. that's why i made it a point to say that rock & rock is successful only to the DEGREE that it breaks with convention. of course, sometimes time itself dulls those edges and makes the art easier to digest.