Issues with merged games

I know a lot of people are in love with merging different entries into one, but I'd like to point out a few issues that I'm running into concerning the games section. Many of these would also apply to DVDs, should those also start being merged.

- Cannot add multiple versions of the same game.
If one version of a game has been added to any list, it cannot be added or duplicated elsewhere. So for example, I currently own the US version of Neo Geo Battle Coliseum. I'm pretty annoyed that SNK removed 480p support from this release, so I decide to add the JP version to my wishlist because it retains this feature. Had these two entries been merged (they are currently not), this would not be possible, because I can't have something added as wanted and owned simultaneously.

- ISBN/UPC/EAN/JAN are rendered useless.
I'm the sort of person who punches in the ISBN to ensure that what I'm listing is exactly the version I have or want. When entries are merged, this becomes impossible to make use of. There is no way to distinguish one version from another, apart from the ASIN, so I'm required to pull up Amazon, check the ASIN against the ISBN, then add the correct version. If there is no corresponding ASIN, I'm left to guess, and if I need to refer back to that ISBN for any reason, there's no way for me to view it. In some cases, the ASIN has been applied to more than one version of the game (such as the first printing and the Greatest Hits release, even if the GH has additional/changed content), again causing problems for anyone who needs to distinguish the two. To further complicate things, people often treat the EAN, JAN, and UPC as interchangeable, even when they're very different, and I'm eventually forced to rely on my own tags. There's also no field to enter the JAN, forcing people creating new entries to enter this into the EAN field. More to the point, I don't think most products that have more than one designation. It's either a UPC, JAN, or EAN, depending on the country it came from, not a mix of the three.

- Tags apply to all versions, not one.
Referring back to the Neo-Geo Battle Coliseum example, if those entries were merged, I could not tag one with "us" and "480i" and the other with "jp" and "480p" because the tags given to one apply to all.

- Titles look messy.
We're winding up with titles like "Fatal Frame II: Crimson Butterfly (Director's Cut) (aka Project Zero II)." Maybe it's just graphic design nerd rage on my part, but it drives me crazy that every entry looks like a random jumble of inconsistent formatting and every title and descriptor people decide to shove in there. Why can't the title just be the actual title, with any additional details being noted within the entry itself?

Am I the only person running into problems because of these issues? Are there plans or considerations to address some of these things?

To be honest I don't completely understand some of your points but I would like to improve the editing ability so more detail can be added to each edition so you could enter the correct UPC/EAN/JAN for each edition.

I am confused about the ISBN/ASIN mentions, games do not even have ISBN's, they use UPC/EAN codes (at least the US/UK). The amazon ASIN is used by amazon locally with the exception of books where the ISBN is the same as the ASIN.

Some of the things mentioned e.g only listing 1 edition were intentional to avoid making the system too complicated, this may be changed in the future and it would be nice to make things more friendlier for collectors but there are a lot of other things I would like to do first.

Making the game database all about UPC codes and exact editions and regional variances appeals to probably less than 0.1% of the members. For music collectors and book collectors, its a lot more, but for games, people play them, often rented or borrowed from friends, complete them, and then ditch them. So with that in mind, I'd rather appeal to the broad gaming audience who care more about screenshots, trailers, reviews and ratings rather than if they have the japanese edition which includes an extra secret level in world 4. ;)

Keep it simple. That's my motto.

Why can't the title just be the actual title, with any additional details being noted within the entry itself?

Because people in UK will search for the game as 'Project Zero' and in the states as 'Fatal Frame', so until the database has an 'alternate title' field, I'd rather not make a title un-searchable to people for the sake of aesthetics.

Tom - Sorry, misphrasing on my part. I just tossed the ISBN mention in there for products that do use them, but chose games simply as an example of where problems arise.

I understand wanting to keep the system relatively uncomplicated, and it's not even that "one entry to rule them all" is a bad idea, I'd just like to see a greater distinction between sub-entries, regional versions, different editions, etc.


Prelude - The issue is one of accuracy, and Listal has a comparatively small, young userbase, many of whom appear to be teenagers who don't even make lists or contribute content. So while it may be true that 0.1% of members would care about such a thing, it also stands to reason that some people may avoid using the site if the information contained is not accuracy, easily retrievable, and relevant.

Put another way, there are dozens upon dozens of sites where people can list their games or other collections in a completely generalized way. When DVDSpot closed, I chose to use Listal because it seemed closest in functionality to that site, and I appreciated that I had found something that offered the possibility of centralizing all my lists, rather than maintaining accounts on several sites. Given the larger scope of multimedia covered here, I decided to list my games as well, but am running into problems like the ones I described as time goes on. As a result, Listal has become one among a half-dozen sites I maintain an account on, rather than the only one I need to use.

This desire to keep things so generalized and appealing to people who don't care about accuracy is exactly why my music collection (http://www.discogs.com/collection?user=insektmute&sort=artist%2Casc) is not listed here. With no way to specify more detailed information about each release I have chosen to not list these things on Listal, because I cannot accurately do so. This is not likely an issue for "average Joe" types with 10-200 CDs from major record labels, just as regional differences between games or DVDs is not important. As someone who does care about these things, I obviously disagree with the assertion that tailoring the site to people who don't give a crap is necessarily the right direction to take.

As for the titling, I understand why people need to be able to search for the game by the title used in their region. My point was that it would be more accurate to keep separate entries for each version of the game, so that the UPC/EAN/etc are relevant to each specific version instead of rolled together into one entry that renders those numbers meaningless and prevents certain details from being included for an entry because it doesn't apply to all.

Imagine for a moment that the current system of differentiation for games were applied to DVDs, where movies like Amélie have somewhere around 16 different titles, depending on the country. It would be an unsustainable mess.

The game section can never be accurate as the closest full games database (amazon's) is so full of duplicates, errors, typos, spam, and tons of re-prints and bundle packages. Games don't have their own IMDB on the internet. Even between games, you can argue that whether a game is 480i or 480p makes it qualify as a different entry - I disagree. I've seen drastically different gaming experiences for games after simple bug fixes that were patched online - some patches even add new content and extra levels, making for a total new game, whereas the UK and US versions are virtually identical except for box art.

I respect your concerns, but I stand firmly on my belief. If you try to make it uber-accurate with every version listed, you will scare off vast majority of users. Peoples biggest complains (mine as well) during this site's beginnings was 'I searched for insert game here and had half a dozen identical versions appeared. Which do I list?'. Now, with merging, its so much simpler, and has resulted in MORE people using the games database, posting reviews, and rating games, than ever before. And after all, that should be our focus. To have ultra accurate database collections, your best bet is those purchased programs such as collectorz.com, which can even support bar-code scanning.

Bug fixes do often make dramatic changes, but have only become applicable with the current generation of systems. This is not a possibility for older systems like the Dreamcast, Gamecube, or PS2, the latter of which I currently connect via component video and actually has a pretty large number of games (more than sites like Wikipedia or HDTV Arcade indicate) that support progressive scan.

As I've said, I'm not even arguing that merging entries is wrong, just that merging entries with no distinction *at all* between versions is wreckless and cumbersome for those of us that would like to list the specific version of the game we actually own or want. Currently, the sole means of differentiating between sub-entries is the ASIN, which is useless in the absence of more detailed information about the entry that the ASIN corresponds to.

The ideal situation would be a main/top level entry for each game, with the different versions accessible as sub-listings, each containing their own unique details regarding the UPC/EAN/JAN, resolution, developer, publisher, tags, description, etc. It is not confusing to people who are interested in listing their collection accurately, and for people who don't care, they can simply add the main entry and never have to scratch their heads in confusion or touch those sub-entries.

actually, there used to be a way to change/modify the different editions:

www.listal.com/game/halflife-2-pc

notice in the very bottom left, thats where all the editions are listed. And clicking 'Edit' used to allow people to modify those settings. That option seems to be broken, although it never was all that detailed in what could be edited.

Though I still feel that more merging = better and more relevant site, a way to have all the detail you want in sub-versions of the merged items would be the best solution.