Game Clear-Up

Is there anyway to clear up the game section? I always find it really confusing when browsing through as several different versions show up (even from the same console).

Could there be a section for games where you have played or wanted like with TV and Movies? And then a seperate section for the version you own?

Anyone else find this a problem or annoying or...?

yeah, me and Thilian are trying our darnest to somewhat clean up the games section before we get a proper multi-platform multi-edition single-title-per-game support at Listal.

General rule of thumb we've discussed (we're trying different things and options) are the following:

- All CONSOLE titles that are linked to amazon.co.uk should have (PAL) added to the title to distinguish that it's a PAL format of the same game - as well as try to have proper PAL or NTSC covers depending on the listal entry

- All PC-based titles with amazon.co.uk link, I started adding (UK) to titles early on, but now use (EU) for the most part, to signify a European edition of a game. PAL doesnt apply to PC games as its only a TV standard, not a PC monitor standard.

- I thought about using maybe (MULTI6) or (MULTI9) as that's how they are often released, with MULIT6 meaning 6 language version for sale in European market (EN, DE, FR, ES, and i forget what else) but these tags would be too long and too confusing. EU seems to make most sense to people, although I did use UK, DE, and even occasional FR to help distinguish specific british, german or french versions of certain titles.

- Any re-issues I started adding (Re-issue) to title, or sometimes like (Xplosiv re-issue) or (SoldOut re-issue), and for consoles, there are also special re-releases like (Player's Choice), (Platinum Series) or (Xbox Classics), so I put all those in brackets as well to make it clear its not the primary title.

- when nothing else makes sense, and nobody has an item listed, I completely erase the name and call it (duplicate) so it effectively dissapears from people's search results

- if there is a clear title that is duplicate, but people have it listed, I keep the title but add word (duplicate) to end to stop others from using it, and adding a 'duplicate' image also helps drive that fact home.

- and perhaps most importantly, some of us are driving hard to make as many custom lists as possible for game series, listing almost all main versions and all releases, hoping people perhaps would start using those rather than just searches to add all titles they've played and owned.

In regards to that last point, i'd love to see LISTS show up in people's search results - say they search for 'half life', all lists with the words 'Half Life' would appear highlighted before other results, allowing people to look thru the lists (typically done in chrono order) to find the exact game they have (or are looking for).

Also, once we get some sort of item merging at listal, having all these titles renamed to PAL, EU, Re-issue, Platinum Series, or Duplicate --- all that should help us properly and easily merge titles in the future.

p.p.s. forgot to mention we try to add a link to correct version if an item is labeled as a duplicate and its on someone's list.

Isn't PAL and NTSC irrelevant in the age of high resolution consoles e.g. xbox 360/playstation 3?

Edit : Nevermind I just looked up for the 360 and looks like they still do PAL/NTSC versions.

Do seperate editions need seperate pages? Are people just concerned they have the right image for the edition they own? I would rather have 1 page per game on each format and then have a selection on which you own.

Im pretty sure people want to keep the same game on different format seperated right?

E.g. Bioshock PC special edition + bioshock pc normal edition are merged but the xbox version is kept seperate

or would the ultimate solution be one page per game?

Is it possible to use GameFAQs as a database? Because that is quite orderly. I don't know much about the innerworkings of this site but Amazon just bings up to many titles to stand.

Plus, at least GameFaqs gives you more information on a game as opposed to trying to sell it to you.

In my personal opinion, i think each game should have a seperate page PER platform. sure, in a few cases, say 'Brothers in Arms' game, it may seem like a flood since PC, Xbox, and PS2 versions are pretty much same, same levels, or in case of lazy console porting, even same menu interface, and even same box art, so some people would like to group them in as 'one game'. But in many many other cases, especially for older titles, the console and DOS versions were night & day different - some were awesome on PC and then on the NES they were some of the worst games ever made with many parts of the game missing. But even in newer titles, like certain Tom Clancy titles, PC, Xbox and PS2 versions were each different. Another example is the PS2 version of Half-Life which included a whole extra add-on called Decay in their console version.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life:_Decay

And then you have 'Game of the Year Edition', which in some titles, is simply a new box art with the words 'Game of Year Edition' printed on it, or some have maybe latest patches pre-applied, while other Game of Year editions, like Oblivions, are full blown collector's compilations that include the original game as well as all expansion packs, and that should clearly be a seperate item, IMO.

Its so confusing and such a mess that I can't recommend an automated way to merge up items - rather leave it at discretion of moderators to choose which versions should be merged, such as original PC game, its European counterpart, the limited collector's edition in tin can, and all re-issues of the game. and on console part, take both NTSC & PAL version, and also the 'Platinum series' or 'Gamer's Choice' or 'Xbox Classics' re-issues and merge them into one page PER console.

Doing this manually to all major titles will quickly clean up the database.

Summary (and some other thoughts) on game clean-up:

- keep seperate items for multi-platform games (example, playing Rogue Spear on PC would probably be very different than playing it on the GameBoy Color, so they need seperate ratings)

- allow several 'editions' of a game, even on same platform, only if it adds significant new content:
- what is significant? new levels; editions with included expansion packs; compilation packs that bundle several full games of a series
- what is insignificant? a free t-shirt; tin box editions; includes strategy guide or collector plush toys; CD game released now on DVD; and of course, budget or best-seller re-releases, and jewel case versions

- another major part would be to clean up the platforms themselves -maybe split up massive 'PC Games' into DOS & Windows?

- to help search feature, maybe allow a filtering based on platforms, perhaps as a profile-specific setting (example, only show me PC games and Xbox games, and nothing else) - reason I say profile-specific setting rather than just for search feature is that I don't want to be 'recommended' those games by my friends list, or asked to rate PS2 or GameBoy games in the 'Explore' feature if I don't own those consoles

- maybe add two special 'platforms' - one called 'Duplicate' and another called 'Junk' or 'Misc' - and when people add some items to those platforms via the 'edit description' feature, moderators once a while go thru that list and delete those entries for good out of listal - no more 'SCSI 25foot cables', or 'Metroid flush doll', or 50 thousand duplicates of the same games. :) Mods would have option to transfer the people that have a duplicate listed over to the proper entry, and delete out the JUNK items.

I believe if all this gets implemented, and then we get a good mod team and busy helpers sorting thru everything, we can get the Games section to be one of premier sites on the net for game collectors

I would really keep platform games separate, like Bloodrayne for Gamecube, Xbox, PC and PS2. I think by merging up UK, PAL and re-issues, that would be enough of a clean up. Making only one entry for a game and including every platform would be overkill and bring clutter from 'search' pages to item's pages, as some might end up with 20+ 'versions'. And though many titles with the popular GameCube/Xbox/PC/PS2 variants may conform to 'being the same game', where do you draw the line? Do you include hand-held games of same title? seems nuts to consider a DS or PSP version of a FPS shooter to be worthy of 'same reviews and screenshots' as its PC counterpart. :)
heck, even many gamecube versions of popular multi-platform games offer a whole different gameplay and lower resolutions, no multiplayer feature, and in some cases, even less levels and options, so really should be rated separatly.

that's actually a good rule of thumb - if a particular game version or edition would make you give it a separate rating, then it deserves its own page.

we have a lovechild? damn, that'd be one ugly kid :)

half Rally car, half emu

but yes, Custom Lists are filling in the roll nicely of keeping all 'related' multi-platform games linked up

(double post) p.s. how come I can't delete my own post anymore? i thought it used to be possible. hmmm

All this pushing to merge R2 with R1, UK Albums with US ones and PAL/Japanese releases with NTSC/Japanese ones makes me pretty uneasy. We often have different covers, release dates, UPCs, Publishers, Record Labels, Bonus Tracks and so on.

If what you're talking about is having a "master" product with the ability to tag which version you own, each with it's own details, then fair enough, but for the millionth time, PLEASE DON'T JUST MERGE AND DESTROY EVERYTHING! It really would make me look for another solution for keeping track of what I own etc.

As an aside, certain releases do actually have more than one format on the same disc (usually PC/Mac) - Football Manager 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 have all been one release and multiplatform.

Phil, that's one aspect that's buggin me to. I love to see the different NTSC and PAL covers, but I also think having a 'master' item and checkbox for all 'editions' would simplify things as well, but then, which cover do you show? I'm sure if someone has a PS2 version of a game, they sure as heck wouldn't want that green border of Xbox cover showing up in their collections :)

how about we gradually simplify the database, namely merging/deleting out re-prints of same titles, or duplicates, as well as all the junk like plush dolls, posters, and keychains that seem to pollute the game area. take it one step at a time, and if it's good enough, then leave it be, and if it still could use cleaning, keep at it.

i think the two biggest peeves people have are search results give sometimes way too many similar versions which are confusing, so adding filtering to searches (only show xbox games, or show results sorted by date, etc...) would greatly help that aspect.... and the other part is to show more clearly which platform and version it is. I mean, on the game item page, you can't even tell what platform it is... only if you hit EDIT DESCRIPTION. and without adding (PAL) to title, that's also not very obvious.