Direct Plagiarisation

I don't get it either. I can't believe that plagiarism would be considered acceptable. Would be really great for Tom to say exactly what the policy is.

I mean, plagiarized reviews are not allowed. I would think the same should go for lists.

I agree. It's probably easier to make your own lists anyway. A specific ruling on this issue would be helpful, as would the ability to delete the list when it's proven to be plagiarized.

As I've said here: www.listal.com/topic/brainstorming

I think that if someone gives proper credit, there is nothing wrong with basing their list off of rankings or content from another site. But copying something exactly, "word for word" even if you give proper credit, seems useless, IMO. It's only interesting and ads something if you use your own editorial discretion.

Agreed with pretty much everything said here. Rankings are fine, especially since most of them aren't super original anyway -- all those Ask Whover's Top 100 girls and all that. And I know BrazilFashion has done some based on rankings on model sites, but hers have never bothered me, especially since she adds her own info/flair to them.

But seeing word for word copies with whole paragraphs of stuff taken is absolutely ridiculous. There is NO excuse for that being allowed here. It's stealing. It's unethical. It's lazy as fuck.

I've started reporting lists like that, with links to the originals. I'm hoping that if Tom sees all those reports he'll actually do something about it.

I think that making the effort to summarize something, rewrite it in your own words, add new info or add your own opinion/reaction can go a long way in terms of making something worthy.

Agreed, I'm positive this user doesn't realize that we all know it's a direct rip-off. These lists should be deleted ASAP.

Personally, I think this list is fine, except of course for the lack of reference to the original source. Maybe someone could point this out to the list maker?

When I saw this list, I was pretty sure it was lifted from somewhere else but it is an interesting list and if it wouldn't have been on listal, I would have never read it.

Hmmm...

It would be interesting to ask the original author and the original site owner what they think about this uncredited copy&paste clone: same text including a mistake in a birth date, same images, same everything!

Hah, funny that you should bring that up. I too told that guy that he should at the very least give credit, and yeah, he deleted my comment. The only difference is that guy is so mad as not to give the actual source, he even started using fake ones: www.listal.com/list/8-magical-facts-about-disney

I told him that he should not only put the source on there, but put the true one on there, and he deleted my comment. Everyone knows he's a cheat, so just do the right thing.

Then we have this.

www.listal.com/list/top-10-characters-middleearth-were

www.toptenz.net/top-10-badass-characters-of-middle-earth.php

Changing the title doesn't fool the clever among us.

I guess I say it in that term because it's so damn obvious. Well, to me it is, anyway. But, it really annoys me. He puts a bunch of fake sources on that list when really all you have to do is just type the list name into Google and wah lah! You've got a plagiarised list: www.omg-facts.com/lists/39/8-Magical-Facts-You-Didn-t-Know-About-Disney-Films/1

Rip off: www.listal.com/list/8-magical-facts-about-disney

Stealing a list is one thing, but then using fake sources...how low can you go?!

@Noitpecni: Exactly!!

I think most of the smart people can figure out which lists are stolen. Especially if you've seen Amayl write anywhere else, because then you can see that his typing/English is not nearly as good as in his lists. Harsh, but that was seriously what made me first go "what the actual fuck...." But it was actually him that made me bring up the stealing issue in the "brainstorming" thread. Every list of his is stolen.

I don't think just simply crediting makes it okay. If you want to see other lists then go to other sites. We shouldn't permit stealing because it's convenient for some people.

I really think we need more regulations on lists in general. Tom needs to actually set some guidelines.

It's such a simple rule of common decency: don't fucking plagiarize other people's shit! What's so difficult to understand about that, right? And still, people do it. For points, for recognition, whatever, and you can see from all the comment sections of these lists, the people who vote for it actually think that the person who posted it created the list.

Like Maggie said, if the person who made the list is barely even literate in English, how can they write entire essays about acting, filmmaking, history, movie characters, etc? You can just google the list titles, and voila, you'll immediately come to the page where the list is ripped from.

Before you vote for a complex looking list that looks like it took a lot of work, look closely at the username of the person who made it. If they're those spammy-rule breaking types, it's most likely that it's a plagiarized list.

It's not okay at all to steal entire paragraphs and write ups from journalists and writers, and I think that if this continues, Listal is gonna get sued by some very angry people who have had their work stolen. This is a pretty serious matter and there should definitely be some rules set to prevent this kind of stuff.

I challenged Mahnum about www.listal.com/list/10-young-killers and another list, I was told that it was not copied but merely researched through Wiki. Had I not signposted this thread, I'm guessing the comments would have been removed and that would have been the end of it. The fact that they have clearly been rumbled has led to the deletion of both lists... and "I have deleted them because I respect the work of others", shame that this wasn't the case when the work was being stolen in the first place.

I think the best would be to ask Tom about what is exactly the rule in this case. If it is indeed forbidden than for each list, you have a report button so you could use it to report plagiarism.

Hmm I wonder if this counts, I read this online: thelistcafe.com/top-10-goriest-ways-to-kill-zombies
and then decided to make a list of it, I kept the 10 methods he suggested and the theme of them attacking your home but I wrote my own reasons and obviously the additional ones I wrote myself. I think I used two of the same pictures aswell ;o

Here is an example of a list in which I did copy parts of text from the site: www.listal.com/list/modelscom-top-icons

In this case, I think its okay because I credited the site every time I did, making it clear that it was their words not mine. I don't think I would feel right about quoting chunks of text from a blogger or from someone's personal site, but models.com is a corporate site. I'm also glad I did archive it because the page I got it from no longer exists as rankings change (which was the whole point of me making the list in the first place).

This is the only time I've ever quoted blocks of text for a list but I think this is an acceptable case. What do you guys think?

Obviously I'm not Tom, and we really need him to clarify some guidelines.

Personally I'm kind of thinking of all this the way I would think of how to write an essay in school.

Paraphrasing? Peachy.
Small quotes with credit? Cool.
Copying the entire thing word for word? Hell no.
Copying the entire thing and no credit? Please stand still while I hit you with an anvil.

So basically, FG93's list doesn't bother me in the slightest, and yours doesn't bother me either, Maria. Especially since you probably researched each item at different times when updates came (versus flat out copying an entire list all at once; hopefully this makes sense, I don't know how to explain it better). And I'm sure you had to hunt down those pictures to go with it.

When there's actual effort put into it, it doesn't bother me as much. But it takes no effort to copying every item on an already done list and slap it onto on here.

So, did someone asked Tom about this?

Actually you should ask the author of the plagiarized list, not Tom ;)

@Orpheus, my dear friend, we don't have to agree on everything ;)

My point is that I don't really mind those copied lists because they are worse things going on at this point. Eventually, it is pretty easy to spot which lists have been copied or not. In this case, if there is no source given, 99% of the time, I won't vote.

I still believe the source should be given though and it is pretty lame that the list maker would deny it or even get pissed when someone comments about this.

As usual, your arguments are pretty sound so if Tom would decide to ban those lists, I would accept this decision but I really don't know what is Listal official policy on this matter and to be frank, I think that Tom doesn't really care. As usual with Listal, the total liberty and lack of strict rules permit all these things....

I think the reason there is no rule about it is because in the past it hasn't been an issue. Like with so many things on this site, one person who so blatantly abuses something is creating problems that everyone should be aware of. I've been inspired by lists before. The difference here is claiming someone else's work as your own. I like to give users here the benefit of the doubt because maybe their education system doesn't stress the wrongs of plagiarism in their curriculum.

The real issue here is legal. I had to take a whole class on plagiarism and "intellectual property" in college because I was an English writing major. Even though the user isn't making money off the stolen or "borrowed" lists it is still wrong. I'm pretty sure that the original content creator and the owner of the site it was originally posted on could sue Tom and Listal for what the user is doing. I can't remember the rules about copywrite and the internet so I'm not positive about that though. So while there hasn't been a rule about it in the past, there really should be one now.

It just further cements his guilt, silly boy...

Stupid can run, but stupid can't hide!

I made this a couple weeks ago to summarize how I felt whenever I accidentally voted for a Dessolie picture:



You can use it too. :P

I commented on one of his lists a couple days ago about this, and the deleted my comment. I confronted him about that, and he apologized about that, and told me I could post whatever I wanted again, and he'd let it be.

He also said he didn't really get why the copying was such a big deal, so I sent him a PM trying to explain it. I figured I making him delete it would be a lost cause, so I told him to at least link to the original source and explain that he didn't write it himself.

He said he'd try and from the looks of it, he has at least given a source on some of the lists...

I really think that the original source needs to be very obviously displayed, the majority of the text needs to be paraphrased or the lists should be deleted.

Even then he only posted a link to the website and not the direct article. He pm'd me about it and I told him that I think if he's not going to change the list entirely he needs to give the original article link as well as the writer's name at the very least.

I also think, just like in school, every time you take a direct quote from another source you need to clearly cite it right there as well and make it clear that it's a quote and not your own writing. Just put the name of the source in parenthesis or make a not at the end that its from a site.

For example "blah blah blah blah." (name of source)

or

blah blah blah blah.

from name of source

Here's another example. This one has 72 votes, too!:
www.listal.com/list/hottest-supermodels-all-time#comments

and the original (uncredited) source:
www.complex.com/pop-culture/2012/11/the-100-hottest-supermodels-of-all-time/

(Sad to say, I even voted for this one 4 months back, not really paying attention.)

I can't believe Orpheus deleted his account :(

I'm too new to know the faces around here, but it's always sad to see somebody leave a community when they seem to have wanted the best for that community. Perhaps it was out of frustration at the lack of a voice from the top, who knows for sure?

I was trying to remember who it was who posted this thread. Last night I saw they'd deleted their account. I'm surprised to discover that it was Orpheus. I wonder why?

That truly sucks. :(

I don't know the answer but I think he was really frustrated with the spamming and plagiarism going on this site. It makes me so mad that spammers have caused a legit and really great user to want to leave :(

I agree with you completely. Orpheus was one of the first users I met when coming here and I always found him to be a great guy, both courteous and insightful. It's a damned shame that he left. I honestly didn't know that he was that fed up. :(

We will start removing lists which copy word for word from other sites but I first need to make some changes in the site code for this to happen.

A giant step in the right direction.

Another good move would surely be to give mods the power to remove lists. Perhaps have two moderation teams, one for galleries, one for lists... to make sure that nobody is expected to do too many jobs at once. It is unfair to expect them to spend too much time cleaning up all the turd.

That's great Tom! Having it as an official rule/removing all of them is much easier than trying to convince them to delete it.

And I agree with Onion Jack regarding the moderators. They should have more power, and maybe there should be more of them as well

I'm happy that a policy about plagiarism is finally being put forth, but I'm even more upset that Orpheus deleted his account. He was one of my best friends on here :( When I saw the word "deleted," my heart literally sank. He was one of the best and brighest users around and always cheered me up, and it's a shame that the bastards drove him away. Listal will never be the same without him and I seriously hope he reconsiders and comes back. Now excuse me while I go have a nervous breakdown.