Loginbrainstorming.
Maggie
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 19 23:11 - So in light of recent issues, I've been trying to think of some ideas that would help cut back on problems we face. And instead of verbally abusing the offenders, as entertaining and deserved as it may be, I think we should probably be putting more energy into solutions.
For example, The O.P. came up with a really good idea for point docking here.
One of the things I was thinking myself is that we could change the amount of points received for making image lists. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who doesn't believe a list with 10 pictures is worth the same as a list with 100. So I think it might be good to start basing image list points off quantity, the same way we base reviews. Longer lists get more points. And maybe there could even be a minimum, such as having 20 pictures before you can get any points. There will be a few people who will suffer if they have lists that just don't need extra pictures to be complete (I know I've encountered that with my new VS "completes" project for sure, so I would be one of the ones losing some points too). But overall I think it will force people to put more effort into their lists.
My second idea may not even be possible, but I wanted to ask. I'm not sure how many people know that if you have a tab opened to Google with the "images" feature selected, and then you drag an image from another tab into the Google tab and drop it in the search bar, it will search for other copies of that image. It finds most of its versions, including in every kind of size and sometimes cropped versions. I don't know if it would be possible to add this into Listal somehow, so that you can search a gallery for images before you post one, and I have no idea how Google set it up. But if it WERE possible, I think it'd be extremely handy for finding and avoiding duplicates. But again, I don't know how hard this would be to set up or if it would work out at all.
So yeah, that's all I got so far. But if anyone has anything else to add, go for it. (; Constructive ideas only, please.
For example, The O.P. came up with a really good idea for point docking here.
One of the things I was thinking myself is that we could change the amount of points received for making image lists. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who doesn't believe a list with 10 pictures is worth the same as a list with 100. So I think it might be good to start basing image list points off quantity, the same way we base reviews. Longer lists get more points. And maybe there could even be a minimum, such as having 20 pictures before you can get any points. There will be a few people who will suffer if they have lists that just don't need extra pictures to be complete (I know I've encountered that with my new VS "completes" project for sure, so I would be one of the ones losing some points too). But overall I think it will force people to put more effort into their lists.
My second idea may not even be possible, but I wanted to ask. I'm not sure how many people know that if you have a tab opened to Google with the "images" feature selected, and then you drag an image from another tab into the Google tab and drop it in the search bar, it will search for other copies of that image. It finds most of its versions, including in every kind of size and sometimes cropped versions. I don't know if it would be possible to add this into Listal somehow, so that you can search a gallery for images before you post one, and I have no idea how Google set it up. But if it WERE possible, I think it'd be extremely handy for finding and avoiding duplicates. But again, I don't know how hard this would be to set up or if it would work out at all.
So yeah, that's all I got so far. But if anyone has anything else to add, go for it. (; Constructive ideas only, please.
Deleted user
Deleted
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 20 0:03 - I one hundred percent agree with the idea of docking points for fake accounts/spam (etc). For those who make fake accounts and spam other people its clear they have no interest in the communal aspects of the site, they don't see the site as a place where like minded people can meet to share interests and ideas they simply see it as a place to build vacuous lists and as a competition to garner as many points as possible. Thus docking those points makes perfect sense.
Not entirely convinced by your idea that more points should be awarded to lists with more images than others. I can see what your saying, but usually I vote for a list solely based on the content and depth that I adjudge it to have. Quality over quantity is generally a thing I would like the site to have a little more and stressing larger lists from my perspective would only make such a factor worse. Don't get me wrong I totally get what you're saying, but if that were the case I could see it going in the other direction, of people just slamming in images for the sake of it. I mean there's some lists that consist of just ten or so images, but there's a whole load of writing and research in there too, would that be taken into account?
One of the things I find irritating is the users who solely use the site to upload photos, I think that there should be less points awarded for simply uploading pictures and more emphasis on lists, after all that's the whole point of the site, right?
Not entirely convinced by your idea that more points should be awarded to lists with more images than others. I can see what your saying, but usually I vote for a list solely based on the content and depth that I adjudge it to have. Quality over quantity is generally a thing I would like the site to have a little more and stressing larger lists from my perspective would only make such a factor worse. Don't get me wrong I totally get what you're saying, but if that were the case I could see it going in the other direction, of people just slamming in images for the sake of it. I mean there's some lists that consist of just ten or so images, but there's a whole load of writing and research in there too, would that be taken into account?
One of the things I find irritating is the users who solely use the site to upload photos, I think that there should be less points awarded for simply uploading pictures and more emphasis on lists, after all that's the whole point of the site, right?
Moderator
brazilfashion
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 20 1:30 - Thank you for making this list, Maggie :)
Something has got to be done about fake accounts. I have a few ideas
1) Perhaps we could make it so users have to have so many points in order to vote on lists. Too many to make it worth the time of making a fake account (hopefully). I don't think legit new users are likely to jump in and start voting on tons of lists anyway.
2) I agree that listal should dock major points from users main account if they are making fake accounts. Perhaps some sort of ban as well.
3) Make it so users can't just instantly make an account. On some sites and forums, the site admin has to approve registration before someone can access their account. Perhaps Tom could look at the IP and see if there is anything suspicious. He could reference them against users who are constantly spamming/breaking the rules.
4) Make deleting fake accounts a priority. Tom, I understand how busy you are, but it is plague to most of the community to have them stay around for a week or longer.
For example, as I reported elsewhere, this account is clearly someone's fake account: raza2013.listal.com/
It's very frustrating that it has not yet been deleted and its helping to mess up the front page. And when it comes down to it, fake are accounts are the core cause of all the trouble.
5) Jaytoast also suggested we start a thread where users can post accounts that are suspiciously fake.
Something has got to be done about fake accounts. I have a few ideas
1) Perhaps we could make it so users have to have so many points in order to vote on lists. Too many to make it worth the time of making a fake account (hopefully). I don't think legit new users are likely to jump in and start voting on tons of lists anyway.
2) I agree that listal should dock major points from users main account if they are making fake accounts. Perhaps some sort of ban as well.
3) Make it so users can't just instantly make an account. On some sites and forums, the site admin has to approve registration before someone can access their account. Perhaps Tom could look at the IP and see if there is anything suspicious. He could reference them against users who are constantly spamming/breaking the rules.
4) Make deleting fake accounts a priority. Tom, I understand how busy you are, but it is plague to most of the community to have them stay around for a week or longer.
For example, as I reported elsewhere, this account is clearly someone's fake account: raza2013.listal.com/
It's very frustrating that it has not yet been deleted and its helping to mess up the front page. And when it comes down to it, fake are accounts are the core cause of all the trouble.
5) Jaytoast also suggested we start a thread where users can post accounts that are suspiciously fake.
Deleted user
Deleted
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 20 7:06 - ^ totally agree with everything here. I can see how a thread where you could report fake accounts could prove a bit controversial though, if it was an anonymous thing then I'm all for it, but I could see how if it were an entirely public thread it could cause yet more division.
Maggie
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 20 21:43 - I definitely get your points too, Orpheus. It'd definitely be one of those things where hardworking people would have to suffer so that lazy people wouldn't get away with things, which wouldn't be fair at their end.
At the moment people only get 10 points per upload anyway, so it's already pretty low. If anything I think list points should be raised. Or maybe it could be set to where you only get points for every ten pictures uploaded or something? Not sure.
Agreed on everything brazilfashion said except maybe number 3. If Tom is already this busy, it could take way too long for people to have to wait for acceptance. It's a good idea in theory, but you'd need more people working on that area before it'd be successful. Plus, you shouldn't base duplicate evidence solely on IPs. I'm sure there really are households that have people with more than one account holder.
Jaytoast also said in this thread that there will be a forum said up so members can have direct private lines to the moderators. Maybe the account reporting thread could go in there. It could be linked to outside that board so everyone could see it, maybe in the board description, but that way it would provide the anonymity that Orpheus mentioned.
At the moment people only get 10 points per upload anyway, so it's already pretty low. If anything I think list points should be raised. Or maybe it could be set to where you only get points for every ten pictures uploaded or something? Not sure.
Agreed on everything brazilfashion said except maybe number 3. If Tom is already this busy, it could take way too long for people to have to wait for acceptance. It's a good idea in theory, but you'd need more people working on that area before it'd be successful. Plus, you shouldn't base duplicate evidence solely on IPs. I'm sure there really are households that have people with more than one account holder.
Jaytoast also said in this thread that there will be a forum said up so members can have direct private lines to the moderators. Maybe the account reporting thread could go in there. It could be linked to outside that board so everyone could see it, maybe in the board description, but that way it would provide the anonymity that Orpheus mentioned.
Maggie
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 29 20:22 - Another idea that might be nice: not allowing lists that are clearly stolen. There are some obvious members on here who have been known to take lists from other members, but there are also members who just taken lists from other sites and post them here verbatim. Once in awhile they reference the original source with a name, but I still don't think they should be allowed, with or without credit. Stealing the list from another site and posting it here to get points and credit for it is plagiarism. Bugs the crap out of me when I see lists like this. :/
Deleted user
Deleted
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 30 6:59 - I completely and utterly agree and have recently kicked up a fuss about it myself, unfortunately absolutely nothing has done about it,which is basically sending the message out that Listal is perfectly open to ripping off others peoples hard work,from other sites. If its just an image list (Though not direct copies),okay, I think that's fair enough and I'll let it slide, but directly taking another persons writing and crediting it as your'e own,that's disgusting, and there is no way in hell that it should be tolerated. But you can't blame the moderator's because they have their hands tied, meaning the amount of spam, fake accounts and plagiarised lists is only going to increase the longer that the powers that be put off actually doing anything about it.
johanlefourbe
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 30 7:59 - Copying lists from other listal members is of course completely ridiculous but copying from another website is a different story. In my opinion, as long as it is properly credited then it is to the listal members to decide to reward this list or not. If you think it is plagiarism, then you don't vote. I have made a few (especially at the beginning) direct copies but they were always credited but I also have other lists highly inspired by some stuff I have seen on the net. Is it also plagiarism? The point is that it is difficult to draw the line here.
Maggie
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 30 8:43 - Sorry, but no. I completely disagree. For one, it makes no sense for it to be more acceptable to copy someone off the site but not okay to copy someone on it. Copying is copying, and people outside the site don't lose their rights to respect just because they're not here.
Plagiarism is not the same as finding something you like and then putting it into your own words, putting your own take on it, etc. Copying someone else's work word for word is just not cool, especially not since you receive points for their work. Quoting snippets is fine. But would you go up to a professor and say, "Hey, so, this is someone else's essay and I'm going to turn it in to get credit for this assignment, and that's okay because I'm telling you I didn't write it." How well do you think that would go over? It's the same thing here. If you post the whole thing word for word then it's stealing. And I highly doubt if the original writers came across their work here that they'd all be fine with it.
Feel free to disagree, but that's my opinion on it. And I continue to believe that kind of thing should not be allowed here.
Plagiarism is not the same as finding something you like and then putting it into your own words, putting your own take on it, etc. Copying someone else's work word for word is just not cool, especially not since you receive points for their work. Quoting snippets is fine. But would you go up to a professor and say, "Hey, so, this is someone else's essay and I'm going to turn it in to get credit for this assignment, and that's okay because I'm telling you I didn't write it." How well do you think that would go over? It's the same thing here. If you post the whole thing word for word then it's stealing. And I highly doubt if the original writers came across their work here that they'd all be fine with it.
Feel free to disagree, but that's my opinion on it. And I continue to believe that kind of thing should not be allowed here.
Deleted user
Deleted
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 30 8:59 - @johanlefourbe well for a start those lists haven't been credited with a source at all, they are taking great loads of what somebody else has written and claimed it as their own, if the source/credit from said website was given then maybe it would be a different story, its the fact that this person is claiming the writing is there's that makes me so angry.If it were just images then it wouldn't bother me so much, but we're talking direct copies of masses of writing and somebody else's original thought here with no direct links/connection to the original persons work whatsoever...and even then like Maggie says, if the writer/website of the original was made aware that their work had been directly copied without permission would they be at all happy or flattered? Somehow I doubt that very much.
@Maggie: Exactly, totally agree.
@Maggie: Exactly, totally agree.
ape
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 30 10:02 - The thing about copying lists from other websites is that those sites post that content so that their website gets visits. When you copy the list and post it here, you're potentially taking away visitors from the person or people who put all the time and effort into creating it. For a lot of sites, unique visitor count dictates the amount of funding they get from advertisers and such...By posting their list here, it has the possibility of having an effect on that website's financial income...Especially as this site grows larger and more popular.
As a fellow who's had plenty of stuff copied on the ol' internet (but not on Listal, that I know of) I can say that it's not a nice feeling to put a lot of work into something to find it pop up elsewhere, taking away some of the audience that you were trying to get.
I can see why some folks might think that pointing links to the original and giving credit might make it okay...But realistically, if someone saw the list here, it's unlikely that they'll go visit the link to check out the exact same list on the original website. There's no need to. They saw it here, why visit the original? Giving credit and copying a list is better than just blatantly stealing it, but it still isn't a good thing.
Plus, as Listal grows, it kind of opens the doors for potential legal issues regarding copyrights and the like.
As a fellow who's had plenty of stuff copied on the ol' internet (but not on Listal, that I know of) I can say that it's not a nice feeling to put a lot of work into something to find it pop up elsewhere, taking away some of the audience that you were trying to get.
I can see why some folks might think that pointing links to the original and giving credit might make it okay...But realistically, if someone saw the list here, it's unlikely that they'll go visit the link to check out the exact same list on the original website. There's no need to. They saw it here, why visit the original? Giving credit and copying a list is better than just blatantly stealing it, but it still isn't a good thing.
Plus, as Listal grows, it kind of opens the doors for potential legal issues regarding copyrights and the like.
Moderator brazilfashion
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 30 10:20 - I think its perfectly okay to take stuff like rankings from other sites (as long as you give credit, off course), especially well respected sources of info such as AFI film rankings, magazine articles, Forbes, Models.com, or official IMDB rankings: and then use that material to present it in your own way, using your own editorial judgement. But just copying someone's personal work, word for word, I agree is not cool. And just ruins the integrity of the site.
For example I see nothing wrong with this list I made: www.listal.com/list/modelscom-the-hot-list
based off the info from here: models.com/rankings/ui/TheHotList/8821#8821
As you can, see I didn't just copy/regurgitate what the site said. I looked beyond that page and into the background of each model and used my own editorial judgement to decide what information I wanted to communicate. Or if I had not put any text, just chosen a photo of each model, I think that would have also been fine as well. The only text I copied was the description of what the MDC hot list is because it's a new dimension to the MDC rankings and I felt that using their definition was by far the best way to communicate what these rankings are.
So yes, this is a case when it is acceptable. On the other hand, if I just copied some opinion rankings made by some random blogger and copied their own writing word for word like this: stylecaster.com/15-sexiest-models-past-present/
even if I gave them credit, that just seems stupid to me. I have a brain and I know at least as much as that blogger about the modeling industry to make my own "15 Sexiest Models Ever" rankings.
MDC rankings, on the other hand are highly influential in the modeling industry. If MDC says they are expected to be the next top models, they are expected to be the next top models. And part of the appeal for me of making the list is to have a page on here were one can easily find the profiles of the top up and coming models. Furthermore, these rankings will eventually be updated, so its nice to create a list to have an archive of what they were during X time.
Once again, I think this all just comes down to using common sense, which some users here clearly lack.
For example I see nothing wrong with this list I made: www.listal.com/list/modelscom-the-hot-list
based off the info from here: models.com/rankings/ui/TheHotList/8821#8821
As you can, see I didn't just copy/regurgitate what the site said. I looked beyond that page and into the background of each model and used my own editorial judgement to decide what information I wanted to communicate. Or if I had not put any text, just chosen a photo of each model, I think that would have also been fine as well. The only text I copied was the description of what the MDC hot list is because it's a new dimension to the MDC rankings and I felt that using their definition was by far the best way to communicate what these rankings are.
So yes, this is a case when it is acceptable. On the other hand, if I just copied some opinion rankings made by some random blogger and copied their own writing word for word like this: stylecaster.com/15-sexiest-models-past-present/
even if I gave them credit, that just seems stupid to me. I have a brain and I know at least as much as that blogger about the modeling industry to make my own "15 Sexiest Models Ever" rankings.
MDC rankings, on the other hand are highly influential in the modeling industry. If MDC says they are expected to be the next top models, they are expected to be the next top models. And part of the appeal for me of making the list is to have a page on here were one can easily find the profiles of the top up and coming models. Furthermore, these rankings will eventually be updated, so its nice to create a list to have an archive of what they were during X time.
Once again, I think this all just comes down to using common sense, which some users here clearly lack.
johanlefourbe
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 30 13:02 - Personally, I think that if you would remove all the copies from other websites, 1/4 of the lists would be gone. Even though 100 of my lists will be removed (depending on how you would qualify a copy), I would actually be fine with this rule but it would be difficult to enforce.
Moderator brazilfashion
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 30 13:46 - It wouldn't work to such an extreme. I mean this site started as mostly about films and there are so many lists about stuff like AFI rankings. And what is wrong with something like that.
No one has had a problem with it in the past because it was rarely abused. Almost everything was done within reason. Now spammers are just taking random content from blogs and other sites and mass posting multiple lists with that stuff, just so they can get more points.
In other words, spammers ruin everything.
No one has had a problem with it in the past because it was rarely abused. Almost everything was done within reason. Now spammers are just taking random content from blogs and other sites and mass posting multiple lists with that stuff, just so they can get more points.
In other words, spammers ruin everything.
Deleted user
Deleted
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 30 14:18 - The only way any of these topics are going to be solved is if the solution can be automated. If alt-accounts are a problem then the solutions are pretty much summed up in the third post in this thread. I'm not sure you even require a valid email to register here and knocking up a new account takes about five seconds. Users should not be allowed to vote until they have rated at least 100 items, uploaded 10 pictures (in their profile section at least) or have accrued over a certain number of points themselves. Easy.
As for list content, the problem isn't how many images are in a list, the problem is when and how they are promoted to the front page. I think the number of votes required for a promotion should be randomly generated, not set in stone. That way you wouldn't get snivelling members constantly begging to know what the thresholds are in the forums. Likewise it might stop members constantly begging for votes on other people's profiles (and in the forums again) and generating completely fake alt-accounts to vote purely for their own content.
Maybe this would free up some moderator time to go through and prevent lists that are just different versions of pages that already exist on listal, from ever appearing on the promoted items list. For example (at random of course):
THIS LIST is almost exactly the same as
THIS PAGE, only less comprehensive and more out of date. Why would people want to see that!? Likewise THIS LIST is almost identical to
THIS PAGE. And when stuff like that shows up it just reminds me of how trite and boring Listal has become as there isn't an atom of ingenuity in the most popular lists.
A better way to deal with this problem would, of course, be to let me block content from certain members from ever appearing on my recently promoted page, and instead add weight to work generated by people I follow. I'd much rather see a list by someone like ape with about 2 votes get promoted to my screen rather than a 50 vote copy and paste special drummed up by other less adventurous members. But then again I made this suggestion about 5 years ago so what the hell.
As for list content, the problem isn't how many images are in a list, the problem is when and how they are promoted to the front page. I think the number of votes required for a promotion should be randomly generated, not set in stone. That way you wouldn't get snivelling members constantly begging to know what the thresholds are in the forums. Likewise it might stop members constantly begging for votes on other people's profiles (and in the forums again) and generating completely fake alt-accounts to vote purely for their own content.
Maybe this would free up some moderator time to go through and prevent lists that are just different versions of pages that already exist on listal, from ever appearing on the promoted items list. For example (at random of course):
THIS LIST is almost exactly the same as
THIS PAGE, only less comprehensive and more out of date. Why would people want to see that!? Likewise THIS LIST is almost identical to
THIS PAGE. And when stuff like that shows up it just reminds me of how trite and boring Listal has become as there isn't an atom of ingenuity in the most popular lists.
A better way to deal with this problem would, of course, be to let me block content from certain members from ever appearing on my recently promoted page, and instead add weight to work generated by people I follow. I'd much rather see a list by someone like ape with about 2 votes get promoted to my screen rather than a 50 vote copy and paste special drummed up by other less adventurous members. But then again I made this suggestion about 5 years ago so what the hell.
johanlefourbe
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 30 14:51 - You got me here, The Flagship....
Nick (my step-son) actually used his listal account quite a lot for a while but not so much lately.
Concerning Zoé (my daughter), when she saw that Nick was having an account on Listal, she said wanted an account as well and we spent a couple of times together rating the stuff she liked.
Indeed, I ask Nick to vote on my lists (which is not something illegal) and I used Zoé's account to boost my vote on my lists (not on my reviews though) because I think it is ridiculous to need 12 votes to get a promotion.
If Tom would like to delete Zoé's account, I don't think she would really mind (she is just 6 years old after all) but Nick's account is legit and he is still use it once in a while.
I think it's pretty lame that, once again, you take the time to come back on this website just to complain about me... I'm not the one with dozens of fake accounts! Everybody knows that....
Concerning the evolution lists, man, get over it! There is nothing illegal about them, they are not copy from anyone on listal or from another website (as a matter of fact, I saw at least one website using the same title and structure). That you don't like them, fine, just ignore them but they will never be banned, that's for sure, so just get over it...
What don't go make a great list and show us how potent you are?
Nick (my step-son) actually used his listal account quite a lot for a while but not so much lately.
Concerning Zoé (my daughter), when she saw that Nick was having an account on Listal, she said wanted an account as well and we spent a couple of times together rating the stuff she liked.
Indeed, I ask Nick to vote on my lists (which is not something illegal) and I used Zoé's account to boost my vote on my lists (not on my reviews though) because I think it is ridiculous to need 12 votes to get a promotion.
If Tom would like to delete Zoé's account, I don't think she would really mind (she is just 6 years old after all) but Nick's account is legit and he is still use it once in a while.
I think it's pretty lame that, once again, you take the time to come back on this website just to complain about me... I'm not the one with dozens of fake accounts! Everybody knows that....
Concerning the evolution lists, man, get over it! There is nothing illegal about them, they are not copy from anyone on listal or from another website (as a matter of fact, I saw at least one website using the same title and structure). That you don't like them, fine, just ignore them but they will never be banned, that's for sure, so just get over it...
What don't go make a great list and show us how potent you are?
Deleted user
Deleted
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 30 15:29 - Approximately one whole half of my post was driving at the point that you can't ignore those lists. They are constantly appearing on the promoted items list, and because you're routinely in the forums begging for votes for them. Simply by being on the listal homepage I can see them and they're there at the expense of something else I'd rather see, understand?
I'd like to believe you sat down with your children, showed them your lists, and then lovingly voted for all of them at exactly the same time together, but come on. Alt-accounts voting for lists is a big problem and you're indulging in it.
I'd like to believe you sat down with your children, showed them your lists, and then lovingly voted for all of them at exactly the same time together, but come on. Alt-accounts voting for lists is a big problem and you're indulging in it.
johanlefourbe
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 30 15:49 - @The Flagship,
That you don't like the evolution lists, that's your problem and not the topic of this thread at all. They will never be removed or forbidden. And I never begged on anyone to vote on these lists, that's bullsh*t...
I already confessed that I used Zoé's account to boost my votes and I usually asks Nick to vote for mine at the same time. I already told you that if Tom has a problem with that, he can delete Zoé's account anytime he wants.
I think it's a pretty pathetic attempt to put me in the same bag as some users who uses 10, 20 or even more fake accounts.
You are on your own in this battle. Just give it up...
That you don't like the evolution lists, that's your problem and not the topic of this thread at all. They will never be removed or forbidden. And I never begged on anyone to vote on these lists, that's bullsh*t...
I already confessed that I used Zoé's account to boost my votes and I usually asks Nick to vote for mine at the same time. I already told you that if Tom has a problem with that, he can delete Zoé's account anytime he wants.
I think it's a pretty pathetic attempt to put me in the same bag as some users who uses 10, 20 or even more fake accounts.
You are on your own in this battle. Just give it up...
Deleted user
Deleted
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 30 16:06 - I don't care about your lists, or you as a member, Johan, you're just the first annihilative member that I could think of examples from off the top of my head.
This is a thread for brainstorming ideas, and my idea is that by tailoring what comes up in your promoted items list on the listal homepage, we could go a long way to making listal more interactive and user-interest driven, rather than leaving us at the mercy of the voting cliques of superficially popular members.
And if you think somehow having 2 alts is better than 10 then that's fine I guess.
This is a thread for brainstorming ideas, and my idea is that by tailoring what comes up in your promoted items list on the listal homepage, we could go a long way to making listal more interactive and user-interest driven, rather than leaving us at the mercy of the voting cliques of superficially popular members.
And if you think somehow having 2 alts is better than 10 then that's fine I guess.
Maggie
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 30 16:29 - @brazilfashion: I agree that taking rankings isn't as bad. And like I said, putting your own take/spin on something, which you did, is great. My only problem is the lists that have actual words, thoughts, written opinions, etc. that just get copied and pasted. And spammers do ruin everything; the main offender of this copying, who I mentioned in my last private message to you, is someone who copies pretty much every list and has very few original ones.
I really like The Flagship's idea about being able to set it so that you can just not see certain people on the promotion page. It kind of defeats the purpose of the main page, but I'm not a fan of it in general -- it causes too many problems and people start up the fake account shit to try and get those promotions. So really, being able to filter it even at all would be great.
I really like The Flagship's idea about being able to set it so that you can just not see certain people on the promotion page. It kind of defeats the purpose of the main page, but I'm not a fan of it in general -- it causes too many problems and people start up the fake account shit to try and get those promotions. So really, being able to filter it even at all would be great.
Moderator brazilfashion
12 years, 1 month ago at Mar 30 16:49 - @ Maggie, I know you were not talking about my MDC lists :)
I was just trying make a clearer distinction between what I personally consider okay and not okay for the general audience.
I was just trying make a clearer distinction between what I personally consider okay and not okay for the general audience.
Deleted user
Deleted
12 years ago at Apr 4 23:38 - Hi just read your post, I only have been on listal for a month or so, but I have allready noticed things as fake accounts, and people making lists of porn pictures and other lists that don't make sense and ones taking credit for lists that have been created on other sites without giving credit to the actual author.
I understand why Tom would have put the point system in place at the start of the site, but is there really any need for it now. Because if you like something you will showcase it in a lsit, with or without points.
As for the fake accounts etc and spamming, if anyone breaks the rules ban them.
Inregards to images I look at some pictures from a males point of view, not all men have sex on the brain but when it comes to seeing a half naked chick they are not going to be looking at the pose.
The rules are clearly marked out when you upload a picture, so to me if you break the rules then you should be banned or worse case deleted and not allowed back on this site.
If you get rid of the points system it will help clean the place up a bit, and also the tagging is out of control some of the stuff I have come across is really rude and people get points for that.
Sorry for my rant, but I see stupid list on the front page and really don't understand why it is there I like list that are unique and not about hot women or sexy bunnies.
I understand why Tom would have put the point system in place at the start of the site, but is there really any need for it now. Because if you like something you will showcase it in a lsit, with or without points.
As for the fake accounts etc and spamming, if anyone breaks the rules ban them.
Inregards to images I look at some pictures from a males point of view, not all men have sex on the brain but when it comes to seeing a half naked chick they are not going to be looking at the pose.
The rules are clearly marked out when you upload a picture, so to me if you break the rules then you should be banned or worse case deleted and not allowed back on this site.
If you get rid of the points system it will help clean the place up a bit, and also the tagging is out of control some of the stuff I have come across is really rude and people get points for that.
Sorry for my rant, but I see stupid list on the front page and really don't understand why it is there I like list that are unique and not about hot women or sexy bunnies.
Moderator
jaytoast
12 years ago at Apr 5 0:12 - This topic has sort of run around a few issues and I'm not going to get to them all as I think that each deserves it's own thread.
First, I would like to say once again that as Tom has said, filtering the main pain to exclude people you don't like is far too problematic coding wise and would cause huge delays in loading the front page as well as cause other unforeseen problems. So, please toss this idea out the window. Unless someone has read something different from Tom this has officially been marked as "Never going to happen".
What could happen and what I would propose is a consolidating the new tools to rid the site of fake accounts, porn and other inappropriate content with a new site design. I think we are reaching a point where "Re-branding" could do a lot for the sites image... once some of the other issues are worked out.
The site should be more 'tablet friendly' and have more social tools. I like the idea of having a completely different front page. You have various little boxes you can add, remove, and change position. The primary box being Your friends feed... what lists they have promoted. What is 'hot' movies, books and game wise from your friends. Then... you could click on another box and that would bring up what is trending on the site as a whole.
I think many of us who are so sick of the garbage on the front page completely ignore it. I really don't even look at the front page anymore and IMO has become totally useless.
Regarding porn and points... I think point reduction is FAR too nice. It should be simple... upload inappropriate content that gets flagged and deleted by a moderator... your rank is ZERO. You can then prove that your can spend your time trying to prove that you are not an ass and have actually read the bloody rules that pop up EACH AND EVER SINGLE TIME YOU UPLOAD AN IMAGE. So, ether your English isn't that good, your an ass or your just brain damaged... ether way... you can stay in the ranks of zero.
Continuing to patch the site as is bound to cause coding glitches. So, perhaps instead of thinking how to fix the site that we currently have. How about how to create the site that we want to have. Hay, we could even have a little fund drive to get a few extra programers on board.
Well, that is my pipe dream
First, I would like to say once again that as Tom has said, filtering the main pain to exclude people you don't like is far too problematic coding wise and would cause huge delays in loading the front page as well as cause other unforeseen problems. So, please toss this idea out the window. Unless someone has read something different from Tom this has officially been marked as "Never going to happen".
What could happen and what I would propose is a consolidating the new tools to rid the site of fake accounts, porn and other inappropriate content with a new site design. I think we are reaching a point where "Re-branding" could do a lot for the sites image... once some of the other issues are worked out.
The site should be more 'tablet friendly' and have more social tools. I like the idea of having a completely different front page. You have various little boxes you can add, remove, and change position. The primary box being Your friends feed... what lists they have promoted. What is 'hot' movies, books and game wise from your friends. Then... you could click on another box and that would bring up what is trending on the site as a whole.
I think many of us who are so sick of the garbage on the front page completely ignore it. I really don't even look at the front page anymore and IMO has become totally useless.
Regarding porn and points... I think point reduction is FAR too nice. It should be simple... upload inappropriate content that gets flagged and deleted by a moderator... your rank is ZERO. You can then prove that your can spend your time trying to prove that you are not an ass and have actually read the bloody rules that pop up EACH AND EVER SINGLE TIME YOU UPLOAD AN IMAGE. So, ether your English isn't that good, your an ass or your just brain damaged... ether way... you can stay in the ranks of zero.
Continuing to patch the site as is bound to cause coding glitches. So, perhaps instead of thinking how to fix the site that we currently have. How about how to create the site that we want to have. Hay, we could even have a little fund drive to get a few extra programers on board.
Well, that is my pipe dream
Deleted user
Deleted
12 years ago at Apr 5 0:31 - I am not a programmer so if having Extra programers on Board will help, something needs to be done because like you said Joytoast I for one am also all ready over garbage on the front page, but I do look at it because I like looking at list to see what others like and their Opinion is on films etc. But not the stupid list of hot women etc. As well as the people having a go at each other in the forums, it is sad I come here because of movies music etc not porn and fighting.
Moderator jaytoast
12 years ago at Apr 5 1:04 - I like the idea of having a sub page from the front page just for books. You can see the lists promoted by your friends, what is 'hot' with your friends (books marked, read and wanted), any current book reviews, any books that Listal is featuring. Then switch to community and seeing what everyone else is promoting and what is 'hot' community wide.
The same could be done for movies. From the "New Main Page' click on movies and see all the same things. One thing that I miss that you never get to see if your logged in is "What is Trending" all the movies everyone is excited about. Also, Tom posts a lot of new trailers so it would be nice to see new trailers and movie reviews that have been posted.
If I wanted to get my fill of celebrity obsession then there would be an area for that sort of thing.
I don't know it seems that there are so many great things but they have been sort of overshadowed by this crap-war and it takes considerable effort to get to what I consider 'the good stuff'.
The same could be done for movies. From the "New Main Page' click on movies and see all the same things. One thing that I miss that you never get to see if your logged in is "What is Trending" all the movies everyone is excited about. Also, Tom posts a lot of new trailers so it would be nice to see new trailers and movie reviews that have been posted.
If I wanted to get my fill of celebrity obsession then there would be an area for that sort of thing.
I don't know it seems that there are so many great things but they have been sort of overshadowed by this crap-war and it takes considerable effort to get to what I consider 'the good stuff'.
Moderator brazilfashion
12 years ago at Apr 5 1:37 - Because of all the crap, I now make more of an effort to seek out really great lists and vote for them in hopes that they will be on the front page instead of some crap. Unfortunately just me voting for quality content v. 30+ spammers voting for crap is not that effective.
I highly encourage users who care about the site to actively seek out good lists and vote for them.
I highly encourage users who care about the site to actively seek out good lists and vote for them.
Deleted user
Deleted
12 years ago at Apr 5 1:40 - Some sites have little questions to fill out for this site it can be what kind of movies you like for example action horror etc, and it can be done for all the sections of the site, that way then what you like is on the front page, and you don't have to look through piles of crap to find it.
I do get confused with this site, and from a business point of view you start your business and you have a clear view as to where you want to take it, it seems with listal that Tom had a clear view but then the weeds started to grow and now that is where the porn has come in.
Either this is an Entertainment site, or it is a site for anything and everything.
Either way the rules would have to change, along with the format.
I do get confused with this site, and from a business point of view you start your business and you have a clear view as to where you want to take it, it seems with listal that Tom had a clear view but then the weeds started to grow and now that is where the porn has come in.
Either this is an Entertainment site, or it is a site for anything and everything.
Either way the rules would have to change, along with the format.
Maggie
12 years ago at Apr 5 5:36 - First, I would like to say once again that as Tom has said, filtering the main pain to exclude people you don't like is far too problematic coding wise and would cause huge delays in loading the front page as well as cause other unforeseen problems. So, please toss this idea out the window. Unless someone has read something different from Tom this has officially been marked as "Never going to happen".
Good to know; I didn't know he'd already given an answer on that.
Because of all the crap, I now make more of an effort to seek out really great lists and vote for them in hopes that they will be on the front page instead of some crap. Unfortunately just me voting for quality content v. 30+ spammers voting for crap is not that effective.
I highly encourage users who care about the site to actively seek out good lists and vote for them.
I've been taking this advice tonight, and actively finding lists to vote for that I like. I've been neglecting list votes, just because so many of them seem trashy these days. But tonight I started looking for ones I like so that I could give them some attention.
Moderator
Michael S
12 years ago at Apr 7 15:20 - ^Maggie/Brazilfashion: I try to do that, as well. I certainly don't vote for lists that I don't like - especially because someone left a message on my profile page begging for votes like a door-to-door salesman. ;P
As far as points go, I honestly have no idea how many points someone gets for uploading pictures of people. I do know that, when looking at photos of someone, (and especially when searching for a nice photo to add to a list) that it's bothersome to wade through an endless stream of paparazzi photos that someone uploaded. I'm sure this is to garner points because the content itself is almost non-existent.
Perhaps a reduction in 'points for uploading images' should be looked at. If people get next-to-no points for uploading images...say 1 point for every 100 images, then maybe the uploading frenzy would stop. Or no points (at all) for uploading images! Maybe then the time and trouble would be too high for most and only the best of photos would be uploaded from that point on.
It's just an idea.
Perhaps a new version of Listal would be the starting point of a major change. I've seen blogging sites do this many times. More user friendly, a new look, a new format. It could also be beneficial, as opposed to having to add numerous 'patches'. I'm not a programmer, so I have no idea of the cost in time and effort that would go into such.
As to image 'content' with regards to nudity/tastefulness...I've had a small number of images deleted for 'showing too much' and it didn't hurt my feelings one bit. It made me realize that I should have thought more before posting them and I'm sorry for oversight on my part. I'm as much an admirer of female beauty as the next person and have made a few image lists of beautiful women myself.
For me it was more of an homage to those I, personally, found beautiful and partly to let others know my taste in beauty. I completely agree that the 'hot' lists and rude comments that they generate are in poor taste.
'Beauty' and 'sex' are not interchangeable. They don't mean the same thing. I don't think that lists for the sake of admiring beauty are wrong but lists of nearly naked and explicitly-posed ladies are. As I've said, early on, I made a few of those and have added images that were questionable and probably shouldn't have. For that I'm personally sorry and have no intention of doing so anymore.
I agree that a revamp is in order. I just wish that I had more constructive points to offer instead of just opinions.
As far as points go, I honestly have no idea how many points someone gets for uploading pictures of people. I do know that, when looking at photos of someone, (and especially when searching for a nice photo to add to a list) that it's bothersome to wade through an endless stream of paparazzi photos that someone uploaded. I'm sure this is to garner points because the content itself is almost non-existent.
Perhaps a reduction in 'points for uploading images' should be looked at. If people get next-to-no points for uploading images...say 1 point for every 100 images, then maybe the uploading frenzy would stop. Or no points (at all) for uploading images! Maybe then the time and trouble would be too high for most and only the best of photos would be uploaded from that point on.
It's just an idea.
Perhaps a new version of Listal would be the starting point of a major change. I've seen blogging sites do this many times. More user friendly, a new look, a new format. It could also be beneficial, as opposed to having to add numerous 'patches'. I'm not a programmer, so I have no idea of the cost in time and effort that would go into such.
As to image 'content' with regards to nudity/tastefulness...I've had a small number of images deleted for 'showing too much' and it didn't hurt my feelings one bit. It made me realize that I should have thought more before posting them and I'm sorry for oversight on my part. I'm as much an admirer of female beauty as the next person and have made a few image lists of beautiful women myself.
For me it was more of an homage to those I, personally, found beautiful and partly to let others know my taste in beauty. I completely agree that the 'hot' lists and rude comments that they generate are in poor taste.
'Beauty' and 'sex' are not interchangeable. They don't mean the same thing. I don't think that lists for the sake of admiring beauty are wrong but lists of nearly naked and explicitly-posed ladies are. As I've said, early on, I made a few of those and have added images that were questionable and probably shouldn't have. For that I'm personally sorry and have no intention of doing so anymore.
I agree that a revamp is in order. I just wish that I had more constructive points to offer instead of just opinions.