A suggestion.

What about voting up/down system sort of like digg? where all reviews given negative points (right now, we can only add points) get greyed out and pushed to the bottom and reduced to one line unless you click to expand it?

But definitely, the reviews from Strappado that have swearing and pointless banter should be reported.

as a temporary suggestion, any reviews that use offensive language, don't hesitate to report them. I'm sure the ones that get the most reports will get looked after in priority.

But i'd leave the reviews with single line comment like 'This movie is great!' alone for now til we clean up the filth first.

Tom can do what he likes with this, his site of course, but freedom of speech and expression should be encouraged. Having said that, downright offensiveness such as racism, homophobia and abusiveness to members etc should not be acceptable. Strappado's comments well..I just think they are a bit childish and obnoxious. The tea abuse concept is slightly amusing..
I am want to write nonsense myself on occasion. I would not wish this to be outlawed

Trouble with up/down voting is it is open to abuse, with people voting against those they have a disagreement with

KingFahtah, imagine you tell your mom or dad about this site, or your co-workers, heck even your boss, or your kids, and they go look up the tea movie and get comments about f'ing tea and f'ing terrorists. the childish slightly humours aspect of that quickly vanishes and it makes the entire site look like its controlled by morons.

You have a good point. Having the site look like it is controlled by morons would put it in line with oh...most of the rest of the internet. Perhaps clear bounaries should be in place as to what is and isn't ok and yes a monitored reporting system for abuse. However I would hate to see freedom of opinion restricted like an IMDB system where review is subject to approval.

I can see what you're on about with a word count thing. However that kind of descriminates in favour of people who are long winded doesn't it? There are a lot of people who can summ up what they need to say in two or three lines. And some people use four letter words to great effect. Offensiveness is in the eye of the reader, that is why there should be clear guidelines as to what is ok and is not ok. If you know this in advance it should make writing easier.

I suppose that is fair.
Nobody has really explained the points thing to me though. What the hell are they worth except bragging rights? Do they carry "weight" for ratings purpose?

There was a mistake in caculating the review points which I've fixed. I will add points for receiving votes soon though.

That would be good Voxy. I feel voting on items should only be done for things you really like, not just everything a person has, be it pictures or reviews. I only really vote for things I really like, never do I vote for reviews I don't read, which these users obvious do not do as they rate them 2 to a minute sometimes...

Voting should give you points.
I agree with Voxy: vote for your own = no points given. You shouldn't be able to vote for your own reviews anyway. It's beside the point.
You write to inform *others* of *your opinion*. Not yourself.

Reviews give you points.
Again, same thing. You shouldn't be able to vote for your own reviews. It's beside the point.

You read a review, agree with it = vote.
You read a review, don't agree = vote and/or comment, if necessary.

I also agree with Voxy that the point system shouldn't be related to how lengthy your review is. I'm also a "short" reviewer, and do perceive some long reviews as pointless (most of the time). A waste of time. If you have something to say, you can certainly make it brief! It's a review, not a thesis.

Comments like "gr8 film" or "dis is gr8" should be removed. They are pointless.
However, filth and unnecessary comments should be removed first.

I think we're giving reviews and voting and points a bit too much attention. While i agree that short one word comments are annoying, and that some reviews go on for ages and force me to keep scrolling down and down and down, trying to find another review, I think rather than ban/delete short or long reviews, just simply make the reviews with most votes appear higher up, and ones with negative votes (yes, add MINUS point for those annoying reviews that dont technically break any rules) get greyed out, hidden, something like that.

I think priority was getting DELETE and REPORT buttons and we have them now, but the reviews are not the issue, nor are points, nor are 'myspace' influx. I think i'd rather have tom concentrate on improving tags, making cast of actors user-editable, adding internal, maybe even external links, addressing foreign-title name display for non-english users, and other productive things rather than trying to address complaints about reviews being too short or too long. :)

I wasn't spamming anyone with votes---I was actually reading all the reviews----being reminded of movies, etc...that I had forgotten about---and discovering others I now am interested in.

And now my points have severely dropped from over 80000 to 17000......why? I don't know---I was legitimately voting for people's content---which I liked.

And now I am penalized? What's going on? Perhaps take a minute to consider that some people are actually voting for your stuff and liking what they are reading---appreciating when someone is taking the time to post more than "funny movie".

I DO read that quickly, thank you----and it takes more than a couple of seconds to change from page to page----so it was more than a few seconds apart...going to the review, reading it, voting, waiting for the vote to register....then going back to the page before the review. If the site shows a few second difference, then the site was showing incorrect spacing between reviews.

Yes---I read quickly, but my webpages are not capable of changing pages in a few seconds to accomplish all that is mentioned above.

Try to keep in mind that sometimes the time difference shown between votes on your content isn't reflective of the ACTUAL spacing between voting.

Geez...I still don't appreciate being accused of spamming someone for showing appreciation for good reviews, which I did take time to read, and on some---I even left comments.

Which should show that yes, I am reading the reviews.
Thanks for making me feel like I shouldn't contribute or bother reading anything.....I also got a few new friends added on here because of the activity---which was also what I was trying to accomplish.

I vote for reviews, like Jessica, because I like the content and possibly agree with it. I don't have to leave comments if I don't have too, but I shouldn't have to justify that yes I read fast - I read one book per day, Grand Assault. AND I work part-time at home, AND I own a store which is opening in a few days. AND I love movies, books, games, etc.

If I vote for a review, it's because I enjoyed it, and no one should be penalized for voting for something that was read and appreciated.
Otherwise, why even bother to read those reviews, let alone write them???

Voting for a review was actually giving more than writing one I believe. Thats just unfair and stupid. Jessica, I'm sorry to say, but there is no way you can read that fast. Plus, you were voting for things not on any of your lists. Fine, if you've seen the product itself and know what on earth I was going on about then it wouldn't have been bad.

Grand Assault, I totally agree. Maybe it should be a maximum of 5 points to encourage its use to a certain extent.

you don't have to have something listed to appreciate the good review. As I said, reading them also introduced me to new content that I want to check out. Where is the requirement that voting for a review of a movie (for example) has to be made ONLY if the movie is on your list, or if you have seen it?

I don't have every single movie I have ever seen, or wanted to see, listed on this site. Geez...that would be quite the undertaking.

Also, voting for a review gave the SAME amount of points as posting a review.

And, yes, I DO read that fast...again...look at all that is described as going into voting for ONE review, and you will realize that they were not made (the votes) a few seconds apart. That is what the site said....not the time difference that actually happened. Sometimes, I had to wait 20 seconds for a vote to register...not my fault that the site shows different information than the time spacing that was actually occurring.

I type and read very quickly. Just because you might not be capable of the same things, doesn't mean it isn't possible.

And---show me where it says that you have to have a movie, book, etc. on your list to be able to vote. Geez----showing appreciation for content that you are either reminded of, or introduced to should not be so frowned upon. And, thanks to all the negativity and non-believers who are making me feel like I shouldn't bother to continue to contribute to this site.

Do you see my reviews? They are written in a few seconds---anyone want to question me on how fast I can type, too?

If you don't know me, then you can't say that I can't read that fast---I can, always have been, ever since I started reading. I devour books, and the longer the better, but if I have the time to spend at home, I go through several books in one day.

Reviews, which are MUCH shorter, take very little time.
Thanks, all for making me feel like crap simply for showing appreciation for the GOOD reviews on this site.

I don't care how many points one gives for reviews, whether it's for writing or reviewing them. But it's just plain stupid to ASSUME that anyone would vote FOR points. If you vote, it's because you liked the review. Period.
No one should have to justify this.

I agree with prelude76 that we are giving this way too much importance.

yeah---there were a whole bunch of reviews I DIDN'T vote for...but hey---believe what you want...I know my capabilities...and I am able to trade messages with doudouce55 in seconds, so SHE knows my capabilities, and I know hers.

I don't mean to be insulting, but it is slightly odd behaviour. You read 300 words per second? Even with the site delays you would have to have multiple windows/tiles open for the browser to load the reviews and their votes in that time.

Believe it or not, I am rather a fast typer and not too slow on reading either, so don't just assume. I do take time to process rather than skim though, as speed reading may be a useful trick to use when working, but IMHO it isn't best for reading someone's personal comments.

Additionally, even giving the exact same amount of points for voting or making a review is too much. There is nowhere near the amount of effort going into that.

As I said, I wasn't trying to make you feel bad, it is just my own opinions which I believe should be voiced if this is to be a fair site.

Hmmm, geez, why would you ASSUME that I, doudouce55, don't play many games? Besides, I share this account with my fiance, and with sometimes read books, play games, and watch movies together, therefore using this site is something else we do together. And since it looks like I have to justify everything that I do, including voting for your Tiberium Wars review, you should know that it is my fiance (not me) who mentioned the game after seeing your review... and so I voted. Here I am thinking that those votes would be appreciated. Try to help someone, you get f'd.

FYI, voting is important to YOU as well, since it moves you up in the ratings, as everyone is also ranked according to "most ratings", top tags, top reviewer, etc.
Don't think that by voting for ANY reviews only the voter gets points. (Not anymore though.) The votee also gets a nice bonus for that (moving up in the ratings section).

I would also like to say that, when I started voting, I didn't realize it was giving points. Might I point out that the 'point information sheet' has disappeared? and for quite a while too. I wanted to invite friends to the site and encourage them to list their collections, but didn't know how many points I'd get if they joined. So how do you expect me to know that voting for a review would get me points?

As *I* mentioned earlier, *I* did not vote for people who wrote pointless one-liner "gr8" and "agreed" reviews. Those are _not_ reviews, in my opinion. Reviews should show some content, and opinion of what was played/read/watched. I have my own personal website (on top of my part-time job, hobbies, etc.) where I do book reviews for several UK and US publishers, and while they do not contain 500 words each, they're not the "I agree with the author's view" comments. "I agree" or "gr8" is a comment, not a review. So please do _not_ point fingers at me and say that I got 50 points for agreeing with someone who says "I agree" when I did no such thing. I agree with GrandAssault, writing these *comments* and voting for them is unfair.

I'm a heavy contributor to the site, yes, but by voting for reviews and contributing to your positive (and/or negative) comments on different items, I'm also getting penalized for having uploaded pictures (which apparently also gives points and I didn't know this), I also lost THOSE points.

Tartan_skirt:
I'm still on a dial-up modem here, and it takes about 2 minutes to load a page. So when I vote, it should show a 3 minute delay between the email notifications. Time to load, time to read reviews and/or write one. If it doesn't, it means that Listal has a time or connection problem.

The emails are not always sent right away it's possible that the email server sent them all at once as it is clearing the mail queue. That may explain the emails from listal every 2 seconds thing.

It was not only emails, but the activity section too.

Anyway, it shouldn't really matter that your points have gone. Only proper contributions to the site should get larger amounts of points and surely this readjustment is better for everyone.

doudouce55, I was more refering to Jessica as she was the name I saw most of in this area. I didn't really see any of your times because they disappeared off the Activity board quite quickly. Which reminds me to ask if we can see past activity as well so that this doesn't happen. I end up getting votes that I don't know what for. :(

I may as well also mentioned that I also received some notifications over the past two days of people voting for my reviews and my pictures. (Not from Jessica either. So she and I are not the only people active here!) By the time I got to my homepage here, that activity had gone away. So I agree with Tartan_skirt that a past activity icon should be available, or at least show some past activity. Say, the last 25 or 50 ? people who voted, commented, reviewed, or whatever else it is that one can do.

I'm still discovering this site. I'm not a very active member (that's my opinion) and do not participate because I have a lot of work. BUT it doesn't keep me from enjoying the use of the site and meeting people with whom I share the same interests - something I don't see much of in my actual life. It's always a breath of fresh air to find new things (games/books/movies) mentioned by others, whether we've seen them in the past is beside the point. If one feels the review is worthy of a vote, then vote!

If points are not going to be attributed to voting, then why have a vote button??? Maybe "comment on item" instead of "vote" would be appropriate at this point.

GrandAssault, to respond to your initial post (re: those links with comments and not reviews):
I see that there is an implemented "report bad content" possibility in the link to Strappado's "reviews". So that could perhaps help remove THOSE "reviews."
As for removing the Spiderman 3 idiotic comments before ForgivenForSure's *real* review, maybe Tom could implement the same icon next to those comments? And if anyone feels that a review is offensive or not related to the area, he/she just clicks and reports that to Tom. It would give him more work, but that's the only solution I can think of.
Without limiting the review section to a minimum of words, that is.

whatever---when I initially started voting for reviews and discovered the whole point thing....I thought the points were being given TO the person being VOTED FOR.....ask doudouce55, as I said that to her in a message....and then later went back and changed the information.

So, initially, I thought I was being nice and giving you all points, not me.

Whatever.
Try and do something nice, and it bites you in the ass.

Some people do not have the energy to sit here and search for every single thing they have ever played, watched, read, heard. Some people might just want to sit and click, read, and click.

Seeing as how I have been recently suffering from sleep problems and serious sleep deprivation, I was enjoying filling up the enormous amounts of time I have on my hands with reading and voting for some quality reviews.

Geez....if it was all for my benefit (getting points for me), I would have been one of those idiots out there posting reviews saying nothing more than "great movie".

I thought I was doing everyone else a favour at first...then discovered that I was getting the points, which I wondered about, and doudouce55 and I talked about it. and yes, I DO have multiple tabs open. Not windows, tabs...as I have tabbed browsing.

But I do read fast, and even though I have high speed cable internet, even that doesn't allow me to read as fast as you all seem to think I can, because of the SITE giving different information than what is really going on.

Sorry for trying to help everyone and be an even bigger contributor to this site.....trying to be even more active in more areas than just my own collection and trading messages with doudouce55 privately.

I am a HUGE contributor on another site, and am known for quick responses to other people's questions---which means being able to read and type very quickly, and provide links to the information needed.

But, if that kind of contribution isn't wanted here, then fine...I will go back to my own corner and manage my own collection.

I only responded here so "quickly" because doudouce55 mentioned it to me in a message I discovered after waking up. I wouldn't have even come here for hours if she hadn't pointed it out and suggested I check it out---so I did.

Hence the "quick" response. I do not feel guilty about anything. Rather, I feel quite insulted that *some* of you are being quite rude about this whole thing.

And by that, I am only referring to one person.
Others here were kind enough to actually thank me on my profile for the votes before chiming in and making such an issue of this.

I don't care....you all shouldn't either...the points have been removed. The votes still stand, which is still to your benefit---which was WHY I was voting in the first place.

Geez...

I couldn't have said it better, Jessica.

Grand Assault, you are a jerk, plain and simple.
If I hadn't invested so much time and effort already in this site, YOU would cause me to leave. Just you.

I posted the same review for multiple listings of the same movie because there are multiple listings for the same movie...and that way, anyone reading whichever version gets to read the review.

I am NOT the only one doing it. I see many people, including those among the top users, doing it---and doing it long before I did.

I don't care what you think of me, since you are speaking out of your ass and have NO idea who I am, what I am about, and what my motivations were.

I don't care about anything you say, as you are just one big ass, repeatedly beating a dead horse, and continually insulting people for absolutely no reason---it isn't necessary to continually berate people who have explained their motivations and reasoning for doing something.

Even if you don't agree, that doesn't give you the right to continually state that you think otherwise.

Grow up. You're just being an asshole. Time to stop.

by the way, I am NOT coming back to read this thread, so any further attacks on me, won't be read by me.

I am a person who likes to help others.....like I said, trying to do that here bit me in the ass.

I SURE won't be voting for anything Grand Assault posts, whether I like it or not, whether I agree or not.

What a jerk.

Jessica, just so you know, we recently cleared up the issue of posting multiple reviews here. Tom himself doesn't like it as the pages will be merged in the future. It really skews the points and it clogs the recent reviews section.

I can see that there are a lot of feelings and opinions floating about here and I'm sure there has been a bit of misunderstanding on every side. To me, voting should be more special than people using it for lots and lots of content, and there is no wonder really that people may get the impression that it was merely for points. I can understand that you want to contribute and raise people's work, but thast may not be how other users feel.

Personally I like the points system as it does give a sense of satisfaction to see what your hard work on your collection has earned you, but at the moment it is open to abuse and still needs a couple of fixes.

Since this is cleared up perhaps we should all take a break from this and agree that it was more a misunderstanding and that everyone has their own feelings?

Please can we keep insults out of this discussion it is not constructive.